Change your oil--EARLY

Treachery

Moderator
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Okay, maybe that's not definitive enough:

For the love of all that's Holy, CHANGE YOUR OIL!
Okay, let me regroup a minute, and explain: I'm right particular about how I break in my bikes. Piddling along at 6K RPM (thank goodness KTM gives us 7K...) makes a perfectly good bike pretty boring for the first 600 miles, and from what I read can actually delay proper seating of the rings and running in of the transmission. There are also issues with heat cycling and heat distribution if those boring-a** rides are too long. Fortunately, I live where I can string together entertaining short rides that let me go through the rev range on accel and decel, and get home without subjecting the engine to too much heat or load. The method I use has been attributed to Rob Muzzy; my experience is that it works. Part of the process is to dump the oil early, typically by about 150 miles, and again at 300, then at the 600 mile service. I don't really want to start a debate about "break in oil" or "modern engines" or wasting oil. I just want to share today's experience.

First: Do you really have to pull the fairing uppers to pull the belly pan? Jeebs. And I can tell you the charcoal canister is going to the basement at the next change. That ba***rd is in a stoopid location. Second: I can remember when a buddy who had a KTM dirt bike told me that the first instruction for an oil change on it was "lay the motorcycle on the ground on it's right side." No joke. OUR version of Austrian oil change silliness is two drain plugs, with two screens, plus​ the filter. Gawd. The last vehicle I owned with an oil screen was an ancient VW. But I digress.

The filter is behind the typical KTM-style cover on the right side of the engine. They suggest you pull it out with reverse-jaw pliers. Meh. Two paper clips bent into very short "L"s did the trick When you reinstall the cover: The torque spec for the bolts is only 8 Nm, but wow did that feel too tight. I ended up backing the bolts out, and doing it "snug." I was afraid that going for the spec would be way too tight.

Here's what the filter looked like:

FilterA.jpg

I don't know about you, but that filter looks pretty dang grubby. I know, it's "done it's job," but it shouldn't have had that much of a job to do.

Turns out that perhaps those screens ain't such a bad idea: Open those images up and have a look!

BigScreen_1A.jpgBigScreen_2A.jpgSmallScreenA.jpg

I was gobsmacked at the amount of debris in both screens. There was what looked like metal flakes and shavings, plastic bits, and green paint. There was even gelatinous crap that looked for all the world like moto snot. The larger of the two screens is in behind the main drain plug that faces the left side of the engine. If you look at the screen, the right end is the seating end with the O-ring. The next band is a magnet. That was coated with black glop that felt like moly paste. You can see it on the paper towel next to the screen and above the smaller screen. Given the amount of that goo, I'm glad the magnet is there.

As an aside, the hex for the main drain plug is probably supposed to be 17mm. None of my 17mm sockets fit; I ended up using an SAE socket that was still a little snug.

The second drain plug (with which the small screen is integrated), faces down and forward. 13mm hex. Fit like a champ. BUT, Here was what I found protruding from the hole after the oil had stopped draining:

FlotsamWTF_A.jpg

Yeah, those are thin, coiled, metal shavings. (Insert face of disbelief emoticon here). Yeah, I really wanted those circulating around inside my engine for 600 miles...

I didn't take pictures, but there was more metallic debris in the oil at this first change than I've seen at an first change on any vehicle I've ever owned. The oil wasn't dark, but it was murky.

So, if I'm wasteful, I guess I'll have to wear that hat, but I can tell ya-I'm hugely relieved to have that oil and it's contaminants out of my engine. If the filters weren't so scarce, I'd change it again before I take it in for the first service.

Oh, BTW: This was on an engine with ​226 miles!
 

reenmachine

Member
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Good to know. My 1190 Adventure has two screens plus the filter as well, so I guess that's KTM's thing these days. It had some crap in the screens at the first oil change (I did it) but nothing like that! A few chunks of RTV and only a small chip or two. Slight difference in the assembly location though...
 

Fasteddy

Member
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Well, I am glad I am not alone! I did my first change promptly at 620 miles and other then the lathe tailings ( look of dismay inserted here ) had pretty much same result. My filter wasn't quite as dark as yours and I replaced all screens and filters with the OEM kit. The green bits are gasket material deduced from seeing all the green colored side cover gaskets(one seeping), which I went through and snugged down on all side cover bolts some were very loose. And I also was able to remove my lower faring/pan with out taking off the side farings. In retrospect I wish I would have changed it earlier but the filter kit was not easy to acquire...
 

Ryanthegreat1

New Member
No good.

I thought those rounded out allen head bolts were a sign of things to come. No good at all. Really not good knowing that this engine has plain bearings on the crank and not roller bearings. Rollers are much more tolerant of trash in the oil.

Guess I will be dropping the oil and checking the valves at 450 miles and not 600.
 

mr-fabricator

New Member
Found the same at my 900km service and again at 1600 ish km's. Done another 700 since then and its service time , its a track bike so gets ridden a lil harder than the road bound average bike ,

After inspection i should have a good idea how to schedule future services , will probably drop oil and filters every 600km max of track days and maybe even every 400 .

Regatds lèe
 
Three oil changes now at 850 miles and still getting some interesting stuff in the strainers and filter. Nice long silicone string. Looks like the transmission is now sending junk to the magnet on the oil drain screen. Don't manufacturers clean the machined pieces pre assembly?
 

fos373

New Member
I was gobsmacked at the amount of debris in both screens. There was what looked like metal flakes and shavings, plastic bits, and green paint.

That green stuff isn't paint - it's the gasket. I noticed those too - but it didn't dawn on me - when I had the low oil pressure light come on. As you noted, the oil was murky but not milky. Most likely this is the inner water pump gasket that is getting chewed up. Check your coolant level, if it is low, most likely this is the same issue I had.


B
 

fos373

New Member
Also HiFlo makes oil filters that fit. I can't remember the part number but they work. They are a 3rd the cost of ktm and I trust them in other race bikes
 

Ryanthegreat1

New Member
I found the same schmoo at ~450 miles. The white, green, and yellow look a lot like paint flecks. I am thinking paint pen used to mark parts and the oil is washing it away?

IMG_20150518_172553.jpg


Also can the valves even be inspected while the engine is in the frame?
 

guzz46

New Member
The only oil change mine has had has been at 1000km, its currently sitting at 4000km, the manual states to change the oil every 7500km, I considered changing it in between those intervals, but full synthetic oil's supposed to last quite a while, and it looks like the filter's doing it's job, so I'll probably just go by the manual, on my previous bikes I used to change the oil roughly every 3000km, but I really doubt that I saw any benefits in doing so.
 

Ryanthegreat1

New Member
Valves clearances can be measured in frame. Now to find out if they can be adjusted in frame.

Exhausts are right at the limit at 0.005" and intakes are 0.002 and 0.003. Going to aim for the middle of the spec at 0.006" exhaust and 0.004" intake.
 

fos373

New Member
Yes - about 6 hours of labor to trace down the failure, track down parts when KTM didn't ship all the correct parts, install, test it. Test it again. And further test it to make sure it wasn't failing before I took it back on the track.

What caused it to fail? Based on what I've experienced with the bike and what others are experiencing: bad design + poor workmanship.
 

RobbiRob76

New Member
Is it just a screen that is cleaned and reusable? My dealer is beginning to piss me off, and if it wasnt for the pdf file placed on the forum, i wouldnt have an owners manual...
 

RobbiRob76

New Member
Is it just a screen that is cleaned and reusable? My dealer is beginning to piss me off, and if it wasnt for the pdf file placed on the forum, i wouldnt have an owners manual...

Nevermind just read the first post and saw the filter... still pissed i cant get.
 
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