Shock Swap with 99-02 R6

Formula390

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So I have been POURING over rear shocks from 86 to 15, looking at possibly viable contenders for a shock swap for the RC390. Lets face it, the stock street (non-cup) rear shock... is total garbage. The WP shock is a possibility, but it's pricey for something that still isn't exactly reported to be spectacular. The Ohlins is coming down the line, and will be here eventually... but it's gonna be pricey too. So, I found myself wondering: "What's out there that might be a swap candidate, and cheap, off the used market?" TONS of them don't have eyes on both ends, most are completely the wrong length. There came down to about 8 finalist as contenders... The 96-99 CBR 900RR shock got REALLY close, but the bottom eye is 40mm wide, which would require one to mill ~5.5mm off each side. Easy if you've got a milling machine (I've got two) but not everyone else has a full machine shop... so I put that one in my back pocket as a possible option, and kept gong through the list. The very last one on the list tho, looks VERY promising.

I -=THINK=- I've found it! The 99 to 02 Yamaha YZF R6 shock is 310mm long eye to eye, and the eyes are 30mm wide. There's even ride height adjustment of +6/-4mm ride height adjustment. That is Dead Nuts Perfect! There is a nitrogen reservoir, but unfortunatly it's attached.... However, it's horizontal, not vertical, so it LOOKS like it won't interfere with the stock exhaust, and certainly wouldn't with the exhaust I'm designing and planning on releasing next month (likely to very closely coincide with when the PCv comes out for the 390)... but I digress.

There are SCADS of 'em on eBay. I just ordered one off of eBay. $18, free delivery even. This is hitting the target damn near perfect it's looking like. I likely won't know for a week if it will ACTUALLY fit, or how it'll do. There may very well be the fact that it'll fit, but will still be useless because the dampening and spring on there will be just totally wrong. I'm in the Big Boy club at 210#, so the extra spring from the R6 likely will work perfectly for me... and the adjustments on the dampening and preload might very well fall into the usable realms. Or they might not. Either way, it's an $18 gamble, which will potentially save me having to buy a $1400-1600 shock from WP or Ohlins.

The front is still gonna need a complete rebuild, or at the VERY least stronger springs. But, if this sorts out the rear, that's a good step in the right direction. Even better if/when it potentially does it for less than the cost of drinks trying to get the Mrs drunk on Margaritas by picking up a used shock off of eBay.
shock.jpg
 

mr-fabricator

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Im in , great work .

Edit ....

Just got one from ebay oz , only one available for $75 free shipping so grabbed it . Hopefully the stock spring will fit and i can get it in the ball park on the bike . Anything will be better than the stock bed spring currently residing where a shock absorber should be .
 
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Treachery

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Subbed as well. I suspect that it might be over sprung for my small a**, but I really appreciate the effort that goes into discovering options like this.
 

Ryanthegreat1

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I think the R6 spring is going to be too soft. 99-02 is 9.8kg/mm.

Stock is variable 8.8kg/mm to 17.7kg/mm.

Some of the fast guys here I think are recommending upwards of 12kg/mm.
 

Formula390

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I think the R6 spring is going to be too soft. 99-02 is 9.8kg/mm.

Stock is variable 8.8kg/mm to 17.7kg/mm.

Some of the fast guys here I think are recommending upwards of 12kg/mm.

Interesting. I'd looked and had been unable to find that information... It should be possible to change the spring I believe. Probably not EASY, but possible. Taking oem socks apart to change springs is something I've managed before tho...

Lee: I figured buying one from the U.S. Would babe been far cheaper! That sounds awfully expensive for a old shock, especially given I have not yet even confirmed it'll mount up. Theoretically it should, but that's assuming as the info I found online is all correct. I hadn't expected others to possibly follow suit and buy until I completed the experiment.
 

mr-fabricator

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Its an oz price buddy , everything here is rediculous , a $20us shock would be nearer 30 aud . with exchange rate . Then shipping it would work out near the same .

As for fitting , im an engineer too and can make anything fit :)

Just need to learn more on how to obtain the correct spring for me . Front and rear .
 

reenmachine

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Interesting. I'd looked and had been unable to find that information... It should be possible to change the spring I believe. Probably not EASY, but possible. Taking oem socks apart to change springs is something I've managed before tho...

Is there something I'm missing about this? Looks like it would be simple to change the spring.
 

Backmarker

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Thanks for the info Formula390, I am interested to hear you results. Penske also makes a nice shock for the RC390, 2way is $950 or $1200 Canadian.
I did email Elka suspensions and they have no plans to make a shock for the RC390.
 

Formula390

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Is there something I'm missing about this? Looks like it would be simple to change the spring.

It's a problem of work holding. The piston can spin free, so you need a way for it to remain in place, while you rotate the eyelet that's threaded onto it. You also have a spring in the way of the nut on the inside, under the rubber bumper. I have never been able to get access to the nut, without destroying the bumper. That's not a huge problem, there are plenty of ways to make another, but even after you can SEE the nut, it's not like you can just stick a standard crescent wrench on it. So, you have to fabricate a tool. This is well outside the realms of most. I'm a blacksmith and a machinist. I can make wrenches and other custom tools. You also have to likely compress the spring, prior to backing off the eyelet the last bit, lest you risk damaging the threads, or being shot by a bunch of shock parts when it finally comes loose. If you have a hydralic press, and can fabricate the metal bracket to hold it down, again... no problem, but also again outside the scope of what most guys have in their garage.

Sometimes you can get away with keeping the stock spring, and just changing out the oil. If you have ENOUGH spring, and can set your sag/preload correctly, then you are OK.... If not, then no amount of oil viscosity is going to get your sag correct, and you have to swap springs. Adapting / swapping shocks can work. It's MUCH easier tho when the shock is actually designed to be taken apart / serviced... which most OEM shocks are decidedly not.

Once I have the shock in hand, I'll know more. I know that I can almost certainly get the shock to work for me. What's not known, is if it's a viable swap than anybody with a $199 set of tools can do also. That's my goal. To figure out a way that it can be done by anyone with almost any level of mechanical experience. It may not pan out. Finding a donor shock was the first major milestone. I believe that's been accomplished with the 99-02 R6 shock. I got the shipping info this morning, so I should have the shock in hand probably by Friday.
 

reenmachine

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Weird. In my coilover experience, which is 100% automotive (non-motorcycle), relieving all of the preload adjustment relieves enough preload on the spring (or all of it). Then you push the lower perch toward the body a bit to unseat it and then slide it off to the side via the slot in it (which I think I can see in the photo you posted). After that the spring can come right off of course. No need to remove the bottom eye or anything like that -- literally a 30 second affair.

I wouldn't be surprised if this ease of use had to be sacrificed on motorcycles in the interest of compactness, but that would sure suck.
 

Formula390

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Weird. In my coilover experience, which is 100% automotive (non-motorcycle), relieving all of the preload adjustment relieves enough preload on the spring (or all of it). Then you push the lower perch toward the body a bit to unseat it and then slide it off to the side via the slot in it (which I think I can see in the photo you posted). After that the spring can come right off of course. No need to remove the bottom eye or anything like that -- literally a 30 second affair.

I wouldn't be surprised if this ease of use had to be sacrificed on motorcycles in the interest of compactness, but that would sure suck.

The preload at the lowest setting still has PLENTY of spring load. The preload adjustment isn't threaded, it's that lame ratchet type just like the stock shock on the RC390. You can spin it around to the lightest setting, but it's still going to be preloaded quite a bit. The nut on the bottom of the shock will also often have a threadlock, usually red, so that it can't vibrate free after decades of use. Getting that broken free can require heat, which in turn can damage the chrome plating on the pistons shaft. Some shocks have that slide/slot retainer, but most don't. It didn't look like the R6 one did, which means the eye almost certainly has to come off to get the spring off. It's just all speculation for now tho. Gotta get the parts in hand and go from there. :)
 

Fasteddy

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Going from memory, so FWIW, The R6 and other Yamaha shocks of that era have a slot in the lower spring perch (visible in pic) that you just slide out of the way after removing pressure with your handy home made spring compessor which is a lever style that pivots in the lower shock eye and comes down aways and fits into the spring. the whole assembly would be held in a vice upside down for the R6 shock shown, Same for 86 FZ600 / YZF600R etc. I recently saw a pic of the tool I think it was in the 07 Super Duke service manual....
 

reenmachine

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Cool, let's hope this turns out to be a spring compressor/leave the eye in place job. Kudos to F390 for taking the lead.
 

Formula390

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Going from memory, so FWIW, The R6 and other Yamaha shocks of that era have a slot in the lower spring perch (visible in pic) that you just slide out of the way after removing pressure with your handy home made spring compessor which is a lever style that pivots in the lower shock eye and comes down aways and fits into the spring. the whole assembly would be held in a vice upside down for the R6 shock shown, Same for 86 FZ600 / YZF600R etc. I recently saw a pic of the tool I think it was in the 07 Super Duke service manual....

Hoping you are correct. That would make things MUCH easier if that's the case. :) You can pull the spring off that way with just a pair of wratchet straps if you then needed to if you didn't have any other tooling, which most guys should have around anyway most likely. :)
 

Fasteddy

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Just a quick FYI...

Here is an example of the lever style compressor I mentioned, this one from Race Tech about 3/4 down the page in middle...

# TSSC 01

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I have more info I will check tonight, And yes F390 thanks for researching, I was already eyeballing a spare FZ600 unit I had laying around but the R6 unit would be much nicer! already asking around from various R6 folks I know....
 
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