Information KTM Duke / RC 200 vs Duke / RC 390 vs Gray Area fuel injector

musti

Member
Country flag
Hello fellow riders.

Hope everyone is in the best of their health's.

Just today I was tinkering with my 2014 Duke 200 and 2015 RC 390, swapping the fuel injector on my 200. In this thread, I will be sharing information and my experience while conducting this. Please feel free to share any thoughts and opinions.

First image (Factory 200) is the injector from my Duke 200
Second image (Factory 390) is the injector from my RC 390
Third image (KTM Gray Area) is the over size injector from KTM Gray Area
Fourth image ( 20210430_112106) are all the 3 injectors side by side
Fifth image (Bosch EV 14) is the injector details from Bosch motorsports

I currently have the KTM Gray Area over sized injector installed in my RC 390 and it is a rocket!! - Very Very Happy With The Installation.

I was trying to install the KTM Gray Area over sized injector in my Duke 200, since it also has an open box air filter, expecting it to perform better - result - Failed - Bike does not idle - It stutters when revved. The increment in rpm is not a smooth transition. There is a lot of hesitation. Idle is not possible at all, the bike shuts down - My assumption - Too much fuel.

I then installed the Factory 390 injector and guess what, the bike idled good and ran too.

However, this is what I am not understanding:
  • If the 390 injector worked in my 200, why didn't the KTM Gray Area over size work?
  • Apart from the Bosch serial number being different on the Factor 200 and Factory 390 injectors being different, As per the Bosch spec sheet, they all are the same, or are they not? Can anyone help me understand it better...
  • If the Factory 200 and the Factory 390 injectors are different and if the Factory 390 is supplying more fuel, do I need to install the KTM Gray Area oversized injector?
Both my bikes have the Racedynamics PowerTronic installed - both have open air box - 390 has the Competition Werekes underbelly whereas the 200 has the stock exhaust.

Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • Factory 200.PNG
    Factory 200.PNG
    1,023.4 KB · Views: 33
  • Factory 390.PNG
    Factory 390.PNG
    918.9 KB · Views: 36
  • KTM Gray Area.PNG
    KTM Gray Area.PNG
    931.7 KB · Views: 40
  • 20210430_112106.jpg
    20210430_112106.jpg
    744.4 KB · Views: 41
  • Bosch EV 14.PNG
    Bosch EV 14.PNG
    415.1 KB · Views: 38

Emu83

New Member
Country flag
Just an assumption, I would say the 200 injector is supplying the least amount of fuel. Then the 390 stock injector is the next largest amount. The over size gray area injector supplies the most out of them all. So, installing the 390 injector would seem like a upgrade for the 200 and the gray area would be the upgrade for the 390.
 

musti

Member
Country flag
Just an assumption, I would say the 200 injector is supplying the least amount of fuel. Then the 390 stock injector is the next largest amount. The over size gray area injector supplies the most out of them all. So, installing the 390 injector would seem like a upgrade for the 200 and the gray area would be the upgrade for the 390.

I would say that is fair assumption.

To add to what you have said, I am assuming that the Gray Area Over sized injector is flooding the 200, and that is the reason why it cannot idle, run properly.

I wish there was some way / some one to help with understanding these Bosch injectors better. :)
 

musti

Member
Country flag
I hope so too.

At the moment, the concern / doubt I am having is:
  • Did this mod even matter / make any difference?
  • Does the factory 200 injector spray the same amount of fuel as the factory 390 injector? If it is different then by how many cc's?
  • Guys from Gray Area did inform me that the oversize injector flows at 300 cc's per minute.
 

390Peso

New Member
Country flag
I would say that is fair assumption.

To add to what you have said, I am assuming that the Gray Area Over sized injector is flooding the 200, and that is the reason why it cannot idle, run properly.

I wish there was some way / some one to help with understanding these Bosch injectors better. :)
Go on a dyno, after doing that you will understand these injectors.

I run the gray area one, And it allowed the duty cycle to be lower!
 

KTMasean

Member
Country flag
I have been looking into this same question mark.
What I could find is:
0 280 158 312: 116 g.min at 3 bar
0 280 158 325: 172.2 g/min at 3 bar

They both appear to have the same spray pattern and injection holes.

It will make sense that a 200 will run (better) on a 390 injector (only ) 56.2 g/min increase in fuel supply and will flood with over twice the amount (providing the Grey-Area does 300 cc/min).

I hope so too.

At the moment, the concern / doubt I am having is:
  • Did this mod even matter / make any difference?
  • Does the factory 200 injector spray the same amount of fuel as the factory 390 injector? If it is different then by how many cc's?
  • Guys from Gray Area did inform me that the oversize injector flows at 300 cc's per minute.
 

musti

Member
Country flag
I have been looking into this same question mark.
What I could find is:
0 280 158 312: 116 g.min at 3 bar
0 280 158 325: 172.2 g/min at 3 bar

They both appear to have the same spray pattern and injection holes.

It will make sense that a 200 will run (better) on a 390 injector (only ) 56.2 g/min increase in fuel supply and will flood with over twice the amount (providing the Grey-Area does 300 cc/min).

Thanks for sharing the insights. It is starting to make sense now.
My Duke 200 by the way, with open air box and PowerTronic, runs great with the 390 injector.
 

KTMasean

Member
Country flag
Great to hear.
I have an open lid (OEM cover on a 200 Duke from 2012) with a DNA Race filter and OEM teapot exhaust.
Had a PT from early 2016 till it died in early April this year just at the start of a 3,000+ km trip.
Got myself a Dimsport EVO now and won't ever turn back.
I will try to get a 390 injector soonish to experiment.


Thanks for sharing the insights. It is starting to make sense now.
My Duke 200 by the way, with open air box and PowerTronic, runs great with the 390 injector.
 

KTMasean

Member
Country flag
Hi Musti,

When you said your 200 runs great on the 390 injector, is it running better or are you only burning more fuel without any positives or negatives?

Thanks for sharing the insights. It is starting to make sense now.
My Duke 200 by the way, with open air box and PowerTronic, runs great with the 390 injector.
 

picto

New Member
Country flag
Hello fellow riders.

Hope everyone is in the best of their health's.

Just today I was tinkering with my 2014 Duke 200 and 2015 RC 390, swapping the fuel injector on my 200. In this thread, I will be sharing information and my experience while conducting this. Please feel free to share any thoughts and opinions.

First image (Factory 200) is the injector from my Duke 200
Second image (Factory 390) is the injector from my RC 390
Third image (KTM Gray Area) is the over size injector from KTM Gray Area
Fourth image ( 20210430_112106) are all the 3 injectors side by side
Fifth image (Bosch EV 14) is the injector details from Bosch motorsports

I currently have the KTM Gray Area over sized injector installed in my RC 390 and it is a rocket!! - Very Very Happy With The Installation.

I was trying to install the KTM Gray Area over sized injector in my Duke 200, since it also has an open box air filter, expecting it to perform better - result - Failed - Bike does not idle - It stutters when revved. The increment in rpm is not a smooth transition. There is a lot of hesitation. Idle is not possible at all, the bike shuts down - My assumption - Too much fuel.

I then installed the Factory 390 injector and guess what, the bike idled good and ran too.

However, this is what I am not understanding:
  • If the 390 injector worked in my 200, why didn't the KTM Gray Area over size work?
  • Apart from the Bosch serial number being different on the Factor 200 and Factory 390 injectors being different, As per the Bosch spec sheet, they all are the same, or are they not? Can anyone help me understand it better...
  • If the Factory 200 and the Factory 390 injectors are different and if the Factory 390 is supplying more fuel, do I need to install the KTM Gray Area oversized injector?
Both my bikes have the Racedynamics PowerTronic installed - both have open air box - 390 has the Competition Werekes underbelly whereas the 200 has the stock exhaust.

Thank you.

rc390 is 186cc per min
rc200 is 110cc per min
 

musti

Member
Country flag
Hi Musti,

When you said your 200 runs great on the 390 injector, is it running better or are you only burning more fuel without any positives or negatives?


I apologize, I wish I could express the feeling, but due to the exhaust laws, I had to switch the bike back to the stock exhaust.

I still have the 390 injector and PowerTronics installed with the stock exhaust with open airbox with 39 tooth rear sprocket and 14 tooth front.

The difference, I have instant pick up on all gears
 

KTMasean

Member
Country flag
Great picto,

Thanks for this info (learning every day), in other words, when I would install a fuel pump from a 2017 or younger 390 or even a <2017 390 on a 2012, 200 bike I will inject a little more fuel due to the higher line pressure.
Interesting and a lot of experimenting to do.
Do you, by any chance, know if the fuel pumps are interchangeable?
I would then probably first try a higher pressure fuel pump on the 200 injector.
Would you happen to have the Bosch number for the MY2020 injectors on the 200 engine and what flow rate these have @ 3.5 bar?
 

picto

New Member
Country flag
The later 3.5bar pump is not interchangeable as it is circular on the mounting flange

1621332007736.png1621332208310.png

this is the 2.7bar pump is has a oval mounting flange, the earlier 390 duke gen1 (plastic tank) and RC390 have the oval pump that is 3.5bar.
 
Top