Need advice / input from someone with more engine experience than myself

[msquared]

Since I did the 600m service at my local dealer my bike has been leaking oil occasionally. I talked to the tech and he said if it was on the left side of the bike it was probably just overfilled a bit and after it bubbled off it would be fine. I have narrowed it down to only happening when I am at high-revs and so I thought it was just "bubbling off" as he had said.

Today I was tearing the bike down to put in a power commander and a few other things and got to cleaning up all the oil that had leaked out, so I decided to run the bike at high revs for a bit and see if I could verify the source of the leak. Well it doesn't seem to me to be coming from any place where oil should be "bubbling" out of rather it seems to be coming from the front of the engine near the radiator. When I was looking at it I noticed something that seemed out of place. I am somewhat mechanical but have never taken an engine apart, bike or car, so I need someone who has experience with these engines to tell me if this should be there, and if not why is it there? If yes then based on where this leak is coming from what should I check / fix next?!?

Thanks!

 

[Fasteddy]

Yes it should be there (just looked on mine), alignment tab on head gasket for automated assembly??? Pretty sure bet from the looks of the oil pattern / amount along with the service being the start that it is the valve cover rubber seal / gasket leaking from when the valves were checked at 600 miles...

 

[msquared]

Yes it should be there (just looked on mine), alignment tab on head gasket for automated assembly??? Pretty sure bet from the looks of the oil pattern / amount along with the service being the start that it is the valve cover rubber seal / gasket leaking from when the valves were checked at 600 miles...

Thanks for checking so quick! If that is the case, how much of the engine do I have to tear off to fix it? lol.

 

[cjwell]

The arrow is pointing to head gasket. You need to see if it's wet higher than that like the valve cover gasket. Did they do a valve inspection at time of first service? If so they could have damaged/pinched the valve cover gasket, left breather vent hose off, etc. Regardless if it is leaking, take it to the dealer for repair and it is under warranty of their labor or ktm. My guess is that they did valve inspection and messed up valve cover install.

 

[msquared]

Thanks! I will make an appointment then! In your experience do I need to pull out my mods (PCV, Airbox, etc...) or can I just take it in. Obviously the leak has nothing to do with anything I have done to the bike but not sure how the dealers feel about it overall.

The arrow is pointing to head gasket. You need to see if it's wet higher than that like the valve cover gasket. Did they do a valve inspection at time of first service? If so they could have damaged/pinched the valve cover gasket, left breather vent hose off, etc. Regardless if it is leaking, take it to the dealer for repair and it is under warranty of their labor or ktm. My guess is that they did valve inspection and messed up valve cover install.

 

[cjwell]

I'll tell you both sides. Every dealer is different, depends on how they are (sticklers), what kind of customer you are, etc. You should have no problem as is, JUST reiterate to them that it has been leaking since first service, and that you have already asked/complained of the leak to them. Just so they know it occurred after they serviced it and you've mentioned it before. They should have no problem standing behind it with your mods. Make sure "your" work is nice, neat, tidy, no loose or missing hardware. If they ask, tell them what you added, and did not remove any engine covers/fasteners/hardware. My only concern is why is it "probably overfilled" and will be fine said by tech at the dealer, not kosher. Oil doesn't "bubble" off either.

 

[sturge]

I agree with cjwell...always go with what was last disturbed - valve cover gasket or vent hose is likely source. Of note, I had a similar small oil leak that we noticed after the first 200 miles. Eventually found that the rubber fitting/tubing oil vent hose was not inserted properly into the engine case from factory. In your second picture (zoomed out one) look in lower RH corner and you can see the round rubber fitting connected via a hose running upward. That round fitting was not pushed fully into engine case which caused what I would call a nuisance leak. After a few miles it misted oil and made a mess but it was not a huge oil leak. Had to remove fairing to get it repaired but it was an easy fix.

For yours, possibly the opposite end of that hose is not properly attached because it appears to be leaking from above. Not positive but I would guess that hose runs from the rocker area to vent oil mist back down to crank case throught that rubber fitting.

 

[msquared]

Thanks! I will make an appointment then! In your experience do I need to pull out my mods (PCV, Airbox, etc...) or can I just take it in. Obviously the leak has nothing to do with anything I have done to the bike but not sure how the dealers feel about it overall.

Chad,

Thank you for your advice. I will make sure my work is neat and clean and I agree the dealer should stand behind it. I haven't touched the engine at all and clearly plugging in a PCV isn't going to cause it to leak on any level. One other thing to run past you, I asked the dealer to flash the bike to the Akra map and they refused saying that if they did that the bike could catch on fire if I didn't have the actual akra pipe, does this make sense to you at all?

-Matt

 

[msquared]

I agree with cjwell...always go with what was last disturbed - valve cover gasket or vent hose is likely source. Of note, I had a similar small oil leak that we noticed after the first 200 miles. Eventually found that the rubber fitting/tubing oil vent hose was not inserted properly into the engine case from factory. In your second picture (zoomed out one) look in lower RH corner and you can see the round rubber fitting connected via a hose running upward. That round fitting was not pushed fully into engine case which caused what I would call a nuisance leak. After a few miles it misted oil and made a mess but it was not a huge oil leak. Had to remove fairing to get it repaired but it was an easy fix.

For yours, possibly the opposite end of that hose is not properly attached because it appears to be leaking from above. Not positive but I would guess that hose runs from the rocker area to vent oil mist back down to crank case throught that rubber fitting.

Thanks Sturge, worth a check!

 

[Treachery]

The arrow is pointing to head gasket. You need to see if it's wet higher than that like the valve cover gasket. Did they do a valve inspection at time of first service? If so they could have damaged/pinched the valve cover gasket, left breather vent hose off, etc. Regardless if it is leaking, take it to the dealer for repair and it is under warranty of their labor or ktm. My guess is that they did valve inspection and messed up valve cover install.

^^^^^^^
This.

 

[cjwell]

Chad,

Thank you for your advice. I will make sure my work is neat and clean and I agree the dealer should stand behind it. I haven't touched the engine at all and clearly plugging in a PCV isn't going to cause it to leak on any level. One other thing to run past you, I asked the dealer to flash the bike to the Akra map and they refused saying that if they did that the bike could catch on fire if I didn't have the actual akra pipe, does this make sense to you at all?

-Matt

Not really. Do you have the stock exhaust installed or something else? Their fear might be of melting down the cat in stock muffler, but the Akra map is not all that much different, Euro 3 emission complaint, lambda sensor still functions, so that will not happen in this case. Just uninformed/unfamiliar with the particulars is my guess, them being safe.

 

[msquared]

Not really. Do you have the stock exhaust installed or something else? Their fear might be of melting down the cat in stock muffler, but the Akra map is not all that much different, Euro 3 emission complaint, lambda sensor still functions, so that will not happen in this case. Just uninformed/unfamiliar with the particulars is my guess, them being safe.

They did say something about the cat getting too hot and catching the bike on fire. It didn't make sense to me at the time but I had no where near enough information to argue with them at the time. At that time the bike's exhaust system is was all stock (I didn't remove the snorkel thingy till after that).

In regards to the oil bubbling out what the tech actually said was about when the bike gets overfilled sometimes oil can end up in the airbox by coming up through the throttle body, there is a small hose on the front-left of the airbox that is designed to drain this oil out. Since the oil was fowling up the left hand side of the bike in the wind he suspected this was the issue.

 

[fs1ephil]

Hi I am pretty sure I no where your oil leak is coming from.
If you look at the left side of the cylinder head you will see two silver round caps that close off the cam shaft tubes.
Behind each cap is a tiny oring which can be squashed when not perfectly cental to the cap when installed at the factory which allows oil to run down the side of the head
and down onto the left side belly pan.
i'd pretty much guarantee you have a leak from either or both.
You need to gain access by removing the side panels but once you have you will probably see the leak.

To repair you remove the cap and damaged o ring, fit a new o ring with grease to hold it in place and central and refit snug, don't over tighten.

Hope this helps

Your photo of the head gasket tab with oil over it is where the oil would run down from the cap I mentioned above.
I will try find a picture and point it out to you.

 

[Bagwell]

Im sure there is some seal leaking but also wanted to bring up that if you havent checked on this forum about proper oil filling technique and leveling off oil level while motor is HOT then this could contribute to the problem if the bike has too much oil in it due to improperly filling.

 

[msquared]

They did say something about the cat getting too hot and catching the bike on fire. It didn't make sense to me at the time but I had no where near enough information to argue with them at the time. At that time the bike's exhaust system is was all stock (I didn't remove the snorkel thingy till after that).

In regards to the oil bubbling out what the tech actually said was about when the bike gets overfilled sometimes oil can end up in the airbox by coming up through the throttle body, there is a small hose on the front-left of the airbox that is designed to drain this oil out. Since the oil was fowling up the left hand side of the bike in the wind he suspected this was the issue.

I will check that out! thanks! if you do find pictures let me know!

 

[cjwell]

Hi I am pretty sure I no where your oil leak is coming from.
If you look at the left side of the cylinder head you will see two silver round caps that close off the cam shaft tubes.
Behind each cap is a tiny oring which can be squashed when not perfectly cental to the cap when installed at the factory which allows oil to run down the side of the head
and down onto the left side belly pan.
i'd pretty much guarantee you have a leak from either or both.
You need to gain access by removing the side panels but once you have you will probably see the leak.

To repair you remove the cap and damaged o ring, fit a new o ring with grease to hold it in place and central and refit snug, don't over tighten.

Hope this helps

Your photo of the head gasket tab with oil over it is where the oil would run down from the cap I mentioned above.
I will try find a picture and point it out to you.

View attachment 1749

FYI. Those are rocker shaft galley plugs. That's how you remove the rocker shaft(s) from the head to remove rockers(finger followers/radius arms), after removing plug(s). You are correct about the o-rings behind them though.

 

[fs1ephil]

Yeah I no, just didn't want to confuse the bloke, but thanks.