Pirellis on a cold day

tecknojoe

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It's going to be 55-60 degrees this weekend. I want to take the 390 out to the kart track to test out the new suspension.

Anyone know how the pirelli sc1 / sc2 will do at those temps?

I'm worried about shredding them
 
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ArkansasDave

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Are you using warmers? Regardless you will likely do fine just adjust your pressures accordingly and take it easy till they are up to temp if you aren't on warmers.
 

DCMoney

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+1 to what Dave said.

I ran the SC1/SC2 in 40 degree weather last season with no issues. Warmers on to start with though.
 

tecknojoe

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Yea I've got warmers. I'm assuming I shouldn't really try to get away without using warmers, since these tires will last a lot longer than the normal 2 day weekend. (I'll keep the heat cycles as low as I can)

Pressure recommendation? I think I was running 29/29 in the summer, I'd have to look at my notes
 

ArkansasDave

New Member
Yea I've got warmers. I'm assuming I shouldn't really try to get away without using warmers, since these tires will last a lot longer than the normal 2 day weekend. (I'll keep the heat cycles as low as I can)

Pressure recommendation? I think I was running 29/29 in the summer, I'd have to look at my notes

i usually run 32/27 on the warmers and with it being cold I'd maybe start with 31/26 and go from there. That's atleast what I would do.
 

fos373

New Member
HPR is having a free track day Sunday Joe. Assuming you did one earlier in the year. I'm sure you could pay if not.

Also, just shoot Oscar a message and he'll get you right for the pressures.
 
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big_sur

New Member
you probably already know this, but for those that don't -

One of the least recognized aspects of tire traction considerations on a very cold day at the track, is the heat-wicking effects that very cold pavement surfaces have on your tires.

Based on observations of many crashes (while attending hundreds of cold trackdays over the years) I'm confident that lack of knowledge/recognition of this little discussed fact is a primary factor.

What do I mean?

Well let's look at it from a best-case scenario where a rider is fortunate enough to have a generator and tire warmers to use. Let's assume the rider is at a trackday where the ambient temps are in the 50's (or below, early and late in the day).

Here's a sample sequence: (note: temps are just for illustration purposes, and may or may not be actual numbers seen)

------------------------------------------------------------------------


  • 1) Bike on stand after 30+ minutes on tire warmers
    - Tire temp = 160 degrees

    2) Warmers removed, and bike ridden through pits to staging area awaiting track going green for session:
    - Tire temp = 130 degrees

    3) 4 minute wait in staging area before being waved to head to hot pit, and out to track
    - Tire temp = 90 degrees

    4) Tires rolling over asphalt with ambient temperature of 50 degrees, with 100 MPH cold wind passing over tires at 40 degree wind-chill (or less) for 2:00+ minutes (1/2 - 1 lap), at easy pace, using minimal lean angle and limited contact on tread edges
    - Tire temp = 70 degrees (at end of 1st lap)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


  • 5) Rider completes 1 full lap, and figures "Hey, my tires should be kinda warmed up by now".

    6) Rider leans the bike just a little further over going into Turn 3 on the start of their 2nd lap

    7) Rider tucks front and crashes, with zero warning, muttering to the themselves on the way down: "WHAT THE _ _ CK??"


What's the take-away I'm trying to convey here?

- On very cold days, tires on your bike actually get COLDER ........ not WARMER than where they started ........ during the sequence of initially leaving your pits, waiting in the staging area, and heading out and around the track for the first lap or two.

Solution?:

Recognize that tire temperature actually goes through a roller-coaster ride between the time the tire warmers come off, until the tires eventually come up to the highest on-track temp that they're going to reach on that particular cold day.

-> Up : while on the warmers
<- Down : idle time before actually getting on track, and during the first lap or two
-> Up : gradually during the subsequent 2-10 laps. However likely never reaching the original roller coaster (tire warmer) peak, even at the end of the session!

Hope this posting is read by some trackday riders that'll be hitting up an event in the colder months, and at least one person will potentially avoid a "cold tire crash", as a result of a newfound recognition of these factors.
thumbup.gif


 

tecknojoe

Member
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you probably already know this, but for those that don't -

welp. screw the wamers for this weekend? Scrap the idea completely?

HPR is having a free track day Sunday Joe. Assuming you did one earlier in the year. I'm sure you could pay if not.

Also, just shoot Oscar a message and he'll get you right for the pressures.

Yea I saw that, I think the cars got saturday, damnit. right now it's predicted to be 45. I think that means I'm aiming for friday or saturday at IMI.


any of you honkies wanna meet up, let me know
 

big_sur

New Member
I think it's just an awareness thing. I got caught out by it before I knew this and almost tucked it, but if you expect that cycle to happen, cold days are just less grip. Enjoy, I'm headed to the mountains.
 

ArkansasDave

New Member
That whole thing is killed by the fact that he has no real data.

also as the day progresses the track will warm up and won't leach a ton of heat. I've done several days in the 40's and 50's and been just fine.
 

tecknojoe

Member
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I think it's just an awareness thing. I got caught out by it before I knew this and almost tucked it, but if you expect that cycle to happen, cold days are just less grip. Enjoy, I'm headed to the mountains.

You were there that day this spring when I dumped the R6 in turn 2. I blame myself though, it was an out lap on a cold day. I'm weary of cold temps
 

big_sur

New Member
That whole thing is killed by the fact that he has no real data.

also as the day progresses the track will warm up and won't leach a ton of heat. I've done several days in the 40's and 50's and been just fine.


I think that's definitely true about it warming up during the day and being fine (though still certainly slower), especially with the intense sun here in CO, but I definitely agree with the author that it happens; that's just logical thought and an understanding of basic thermodynamics. I also share his experience of seeing a lot of people wreck on their second lap out off warmers when it's cold out, not to mention my own encounter.

You were there that day this spring when I dumped the R6 in turn 2. I blame myself though, it was an out lap on a cold day. I'm weary of cold temps

I hear ya, I'm skiing until it warms up
 

tecknojoe

Member
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For anyone wondering: it was about 55-60 degrees. There was snowmelt all over the track, so i was getting the tires wet constantly. The tires still came up to about 110-130 hot off the track.

So for future reference, keeping the warmers on low when temps are down is probably the correct move. I got SOME cold tearing, but I've seen worse. Also, it was quite slippery
 
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