gbabyracing
Member
How can you defeat the side stand switch on these machines? Anyone try yet?
Side Stand SW
- Thread starter gbabyracing
- Start date
dhaval
New Member
I have designed and developed the side stand sensor bypass device for KTM 125/200/390 Duke and RC series.
Shipped globally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYQ2lF_yH9w
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...073741829.100000731730122&type=1&l=ae3ce9c353
Shipped globally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYQ2lF_yH9w
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...073741829.100000731730122&type=1&l=ae3ce9c353
Ash797
New Member
Hey Gbaby I just ordered one of these today and I'm also in the CMRA. You're welcome to check it out whenever it comes in.
gbabyracing
Member
How much and from who. ETA on shipping? I need one now. Proly gonna glue a magnet on the switch for now. We are racing ours in 2 weeks in California.
Fasteddy
Member
Magnet, interesting, It uses a hall effect sensor just like BMW police bikes. I have worked with issues on interfacing radio equipment to them and it should be simple to put a resitor across a couple of wires to trick the controller. If I get a chance I will put my oscilloscope to it this weekend to confirm wire colors, bias value etc,
Ash797
New Member
I ordered mine from the guy above, dhaval. Price was reasonable, shipped today but don't have an ETA.
Fasteddy
Member
Just an FYI for the curious, I found a PDF download of the Duke 390 service manual with the wiring diagram over on the Duke forum in a thread
About the crank trigger wheel and repair manual of Duke 390 - KTM Duke 390 Forum
So, on page 4 of the schematic device B30 is the hall effect side stand switch, red w/blu trace is +5 VDC source from ECU, yellow w/blu trace is digital ground from ECU and pink is input to ECU. The +5 and ground supply other sensors also, the pink wire reads +5 with stand down (internal pull up in ECU) and 2 volts with stand up (referenced to chassis ground), so stand up is active low toward ECU.
So, if with the stand sensor unplugged ECU thinks stand is down a 10K ohm(or less) resistor from the pink to yellow w/blu trace will pull the ECU line low and do the trick.
I cut the wire tie to get the plug out so I could poke in and verify levels, but with out taking more stuff and ties off the one week old 104 mile bike I could not get the weather pack plug apart but It is pretty straight forward.
I also found some interesting stuff on talking to what appears to be the CAN bus ODB connection and loading parameters etc. my guess is that the CPU in the ECU looks for a flag to tell if it is a cup bike or do they use a totally different ECU?, I will be looking into that....
About the crank trigger wheel and repair manual of Duke 390 - KTM Duke 390 Forum
So, on page 4 of the schematic device B30 is the hall effect side stand switch, red w/blu trace is +5 VDC source from ECU, yellow w/blu trace is digital ground from ECU and pink is input to ECU. The +5 and ground supply other sensors also, the pink wire reads +5 with stand down (internal pull up in ECU) and 2 volts with stand up (referenced to chassis ground), so stand up is active low toward ECU.
So, if with the stand sensor unplugged ECU thinks stand is down a 10K ohm(or less) resistor from the pink to yellow w/blu trace will pull the ECU line low and do the trick.
I cut the wire tie to get the plug out so I could poke in and verify levels, but with out taking more stuff and ties off the one week old 104 mile bike I could not get the weather pack plug apart but It is pretty straight forward.
I also found some interesting stuff on talking to what appears to be the CAN bus ODB connection and loading parameters etc. my guess is that the CPU in the ECU looks for a flag to tell if it is a cup bike or do they use a totally different ECU?, I will be looking into that....
micahpearlman
New Member
Awesome thanks for the R&D on the side stand switch.
I've been doing some research on the ECU and building an OBD2 connection. (See: https://gearheads.in/showthread.php...the-DUKE-200-390-amp-RC-200-390-CODE-6-Tuning). Looks fairly straightforward. What sucks is that the Bosch ECU is locked and there is no way to re-map without the KTM software + hardware. Would be interesting to replace the ECU entirely.
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I've been doing some research on the ECU and building an OBD2 connection. (See: https://gearheads.in/showthread.php...the-DUKE-200-390-amp-RC-200-390-CODE-6-Tuning). Looks fairly straightforward. What sucks is that the Bosch ECU is locked and there is no way to re-map without the KTM software + hardware. Would be interesting to replace the ECU entirely.
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gbabyracing
Member
Wow Fasteddy - thanks! I'm going to check this. Trip to Radio Shack in the AM. Hope they haven't closed mine...
Fasteddy
Member
Good luck on the shack... If your not familiar with EIA resistor color code 10k would be brown black orange, if you have any old electronics devices, VHS, PC power supply etc. just find anything close (see web for color code) and give it a try...
I found some good info on the non India made OBD II KTM on I think the 990 forum, check out Sparkfun.com for a cheap flexible interface board. I am assuming that since the ECU can be remapped it uses EEPROM, likely serial flash, so tere is really no such thing as locked in my world, just that which has yet to be disassembled...
hat being said, anybody have a ECU I can take apart? It was a lot easier to do on something more common like my 5.0 GT ;^)
I found some good info on the non India made OBD II KTM on I think the 990 forum, check out Sparkfun.com for a cheap flexible interface board. I am assuming that since the ECU can be remapped it uses EEPROM, likely serial flash, so tere is really no such thing as locked in my world, just that which has yet to be disassembled...
hat being said, anybody have a ECU I can take apart? It was a lot easier to do on something more common like my 5.0 GT ;^)
micahpearlman
New Member
Yeap I've got the sparkfun and just received the connectors from cycleterminal.com. Just need an actual motorcycle and build the OBD cable.
If you are going to clean and rewrite everything there should be BDM pads and you should be able to use this: FGTech Galletto 2-Master V84 BDM-TriCore-OBD - A
Problem is I haven't figured out how to develop the actual Bosch firmware. Honestly seems much easier to just replace the ECU.
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If you are going to clean and rewrite everything there should be BDM pads and you should be able to use this: FGTech Galletto 2-Master V84 BDM-TriCore-OBD - A
Problem is I haven't figured out how to develop the actual Bosch firmware. Honestly seems much easier to just replace the ECU.
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Fasteddy
Member
Thats an interesting thingee... the link earlier in the thread did not work, my utter laziness would prevent me from putting a whole new ECU in, but it would me real neat to sniff the comm while it is being written to and or read the flash with one 'map' then again with another and see what the diff is. My philosophy would be to modify the firmware just a little, the part that I think needs to be changed is maybe the idle to 5k, I thought I saw some where that in that range it is open looping to the code map and it goes to closed feedback above 5K. After I read that I noticed it seemed true, putting along just below 5k at a steady pace = memories of 1974 XL250, speed up to just above 5k and presto = memories of GPz 750 rolling along at 130 mph, smooth....
So, if you don't have the bike I am guessing we don't know the architecture of the ECU? Are you thinking of using something like a mega squirt setup?
Fasteddy
Member
Oh, derp!
micahpearlman that was your post, and I probably have open and closed flipped around, I have not played with fuel injection systems and software for a while, I would think it would work more like a speed density set up and run the map until warmed up the go to O2 sensor...
micahpearlman that was your post, and I probably have open and closed flipped around, I have not played with fuel injection systems and software for a while, I would think it would work more like a speed density set up and run the map until warmed up the go to O2 sensor...
micahpearlman
New Member
The ECU is a "Bosch ME 17.8.5 SEADOO". Supposedly (I don't have one in hand).
Yeah, a Megasquirt or one of the many open source ECU's (http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page). Would need to do some minor reverse engineering of the stock Bosch map by reading the injector output so you could start off with a reasonable base line. The biggest expense really is paying for dyno time. And realize that this wold be a race only option as the main display, ABS, etc would not be supported -- just controlling the injectors and timing. I dunno, in my mind this route is easier then trying to hack into the stock unit. For racing with a relatively stock motor likely the piggyback like the PowerTRONIC (or one day a PC-V) is good enough. Though the closed loop part bugs me -- but I'm pretty sure that would be pretty easy to develop a piggyback that modified the lambda signal.
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Fasteddy
Member
OK, I found all the posts on that based on the duke and Indian forums, and I will make a Sparkfun order within the hour, I haven't had the need to have an OBD reader other then for curiosity do to Ford and most others having ways to get diagnostics directly from the human interface. I.E. Focus, hold trip reset button down / ign. sw on / instrument self test/ codes displayed in odometer window.
I think with the OBD data and the schematic for the sensors to ECU it would be fairly easy to "skew" the ECU with a PIC signal in / out conditioner. I have used an adjustable pulse (555) stretcher to do this on a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to compensate for built engine.
Any ETA on when you well have a bike? or did I miss that too ;^)
I think with the OBD data and the schematic for the sensors to ECU it would be fairly easy to "skew" the ECU with a PIC signal in / out conditioner. I have used an adjustable pulse (555) stretcher to do this on a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to compensate for built engine.
Any ETA on when you well have a bike? or did I miss that too ;^)
micahpearlman
New Member
Does the 390 have a MAP sensor or does it just use the TPS for load sensing?
Who knows when California is going to get the bikes. Supposedly it's usually a couple of weeks after the rest of the states. So knock on wood next week. I've got a race May 1-2 with AFM and time is getting short to prep.
Anyways we've completely hijacked this thread. Probably should start an ECU thread.
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Who knows when California is going to get the bikes. Supposedly it's usually a couple of weeks after the rest of the states. So knock on wood next week. I've got a race May 1-2 with AFM and time is getting short to prep.
Anyways we've completely hijacked this thread. Probably should start an ECU thread.
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ryandalling
New Member
I'll be on track on Friday, so I may have to try something crazy to bypass it quickly. The ecu ideas make my headspin... ecu resistors... ohms... it's like they are gibberish words. 
Perhaps, I am just afraid of not being able to start the bike afterwards. lol
Perhaps, I am just afraid of not being able to start the bike afterwards. lol
ThreenineZero
New Member
great mod thanks for posting
Fasteddy
Member
Bypass side stand switch with 3.9K resistor (2.1V into ECU)
So, as it is raining here in Oregon I decided to dig deeper into the side stand bypass, I was able to get the side stand switch disconnected and put a variable resistor across the pink (ECU input) and the yellow with what I can now see is a black stripe, the ECU switches to side stand up state at 4.7 K ohms, So it is definatly less then I first would have thought and 4.7K to 3.9K will trick it.
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