First oil change...love those screens

[AirRsq]

I did the first part of the break in today and changed the oil at 100miles...

Those screens and the magnet sure do their job well, as well as the filter. The oil looked pretty fresh; nice caramel color still.

 

[corners]

Par for the course for this bike, most of the time there will be one or two long metal shavings also and a bunch of excess gasket material/rubber but it all clears up rather quickly after the first change or two.

 

[AirRsq]

I guess I should also mention that the bike took more oil than the manual suggests. It took 1.9L. I had read on other threads here that some guys were putting as much as 1.9L in after a fresh filter change, too. I didn't get any indication in the sight glass with 1.7L.

 

[OldVet]

It's amazing the crap that's in these motors. You won't have anything on the screens on the next oil change...

 

[Ryanthegreat1]

1.9l is too much. Do 1.7l and then ride the bike for 20 minutes. The oil will be right in the middle of the sight glass. Have to check the oil I these when they are fully hot

 

[AirRsq]

1.9l is too much. Do 1.7l and then ride the bike for 20 minutes. The oil will be right in the middle of the sight glass. Have to check the oil I these when they are fully hot

Interesting. I have read that at least 3 people have found that 1.9l was required to see on sight gauge. I did get mine up to operating temp after putting 1.7l in it and it still didn't show. I went to 1.8 and it barely showed. 1.9 and it was midway between lo and hi marks. I'll be curious to see what it looks like after a ride. Hard to imagine that there is such a delta in what the manual says and what some owners needed in order to see in sight glass.

What's more interesting is that I measured the drained oil and it came out to a little less than 1.6l. Of course some is soaked into the filter and some residue in drain pan. But the difference in drained vs. refilled = a third of a liter.

I'm a bit miffed but will watch the sight glass closely. I'll report back.

 

[Ynike99]

I hope you know that you arent supposed to check oil when engine is running. Shut off the bike, wait for 5-10 mins and then inspect the bike holding it perpendicularly to ground. 1.9l is too much, oil will seep out of gaskets and many other complications. Please remove excess oil before it damages the internals.

 

[AirRsq]

I hope you know that you arent supposed to check oil when engine is running. Shut off the bike, wait for 5-10 mins and then inspect the bike holding it perpendicularly to ground. 1.9l is too much, oil will seep out of gaskets and many other complications. Please remove excess oil before it damages the internals.

Bike was off. Put in 1.7l. Warmed bike...thoroughly. Shut off. Waited 1, 5, 10, 500 mins...same story - no oil in sight glass. Added to 1.9l. Warmed again. Shut off. Checked level after 1 min, 5 mins, 10 mins, 1 day...oil level is correct in sight glass.

Not sure what else to say other than the fact that others have had the same issue.

http://www.rc390-forum.com/forum/engine-and-technical-discussion/303-oil-level.html

 

[AirRsq]

Okay, I relent. Took the bike for 15 min spin...plenty warmed up. Shut off and checked again at 1 min & 5 mins (see first pic) - still below max line. Took 100ml out and checked again (second pic) - just under halfway between max and min mark. I actually took 150ml out and it was at min line, so I put 50ml back in. I guess 1.8l is the magic number for now.

Thanks for the info everyone.

 

[Diploman]

I'm sure you know that the bike must be upright, warm but not running, and on two wheels - not a paddock stand - in order to read the sight glass. It is very easy to overfill the 390: this is not only bad for performance, but can seriously damage engine internals. Many prefer to err on the side of caution and put in 1.6l.

Why did you decide to change the break-in oil at 100km, against KTM's recommendations? The bikes come from the factory filled with a special mineral oil designed to facilitate the honing of moving parts against one another. KTM wants you to run the break-in oil for 600 mi/1000 km to complete the running-in process. A very important part of this process is the wearing-in of the piston rings against the cylinder bore. If the rings are not fully worn-in and seated, you will not have a tight seal between the combustion chamber and piston skirt - combustion gasses and oil will leak through.

What oil did you use for your oil change? If you went to full synthetic at 100 mi., you may not get a proper break-in. If you did fill with full syn, I suggest you drain and replace with mineral oil for 500 mi more to complete your running-in. There is a reason KTM wants you to go 600 mi before switching to full synthetic.

 

[corners]

The liters and quarts numbers listed in the manual are often mixed up and result in an overfill of oil

1.6L w/o filter
1.8L w/ filter

1.7Quarts w/o filter
1.9Quarts w/ filter

200 ml more w/ filter
.2 quarts more w/ filter

Of course it's best to check with the bike warmed up instead of just blindly adding oil

 

[AirRsq]

I'm sure you know that the bike must be upright, warm but not running, and on two wheels - not a paddock stand - in order to read the sight glass. It is very easy to overfill the 390: this is not only bad for performance, but can seriously damage engine internals. Many prefer to err on the side of caution and put in 1.6l.

Why did you decide to change the break-in oil at 100km, against KTM's recommendations? The bikes come from the factory filled with a special mineral oil designed to facilitate the honing of moving parts against one another. KTM wants you to run the break-in oil for 600 mi/1000 km to complete the running-in process. A very important part of this process is the wearing-in of the piston rings against the cylinder bore. If the rings are not fully worn-in and seated, you will not have a tight seal between the combustion chamber and piston skirt - combustion gasses and oil will leak through.

What oil did you use for your oil change? If you went to full synthetic at 100 mi., you may not get a proper break-in. If you did fill with full syn, I suggest you drain and replace with mineral oil for 500 mi more to complete your running-in. There is a reason KTM wants you to go 600 mi before switching to full synthetic.

Concur on all - bike was flat on floor, warm, not running. Yes, I refilled with mineral oil. I've broken in quite a few new bikes and am always surprised at what comes out with the first oil change. I always change the oil within the first 1-2 hrs or 100miles to flush out the crap then replace oil and filter with mineral oil again for the recommended interval.

 

[Treachery]

Why did you decide to change the break-in oil at 100km, against KTM's recommendations?

All due respect, but have you looked at the pictures of the screens or read the other first oil change threads? Have at it if you want to leave metal swarf and gasket material swimming around in your engine, but NFW I would do that, regardless of KTM's recommendation.

The bikes come from the factory filled with a special mineral oil

This is nonsense. The bike came from the factory with the same Motorex synthetic blend that the dealers use for oil changes and that they sell to us for the same purpose. Modern emission requirements do not allow manufacturers to sell engines with coarse manufacturing tolerances. The running-in process is still important, but "break in oil" is a myth. Where I would agree with you is in not switching to full synthetic until some later point, at least in this bike.

 

[OldVet]

Changed my oil again today.at 2,750 miles

1st oil change at 200 miles - Screens looked like yours Marc
2nd oil change at 620 miles - Nothing on the screens, oil was pretty clean.
3rd oil change at 2,750 miles - A few more metal shavings on the screens and a couple of night crawlers in the oil pan, oil was black...

 

[Treachery]

This:


Is why you should change your oil. Does that​ look like part of KTM's break-in plan?

 

[Diploman]

IMO, that looks like debris left in the crankcase from machining at the factory. I doubt it has anything to do with break-in.

 

[Treachery]

So...it's better to leave it in there for 600 miles?

 

[corners]

So...it's better to leave it in there for 600 miles?

It's subjective. I know guys that change it at 20 miles and guys that have left it in for 1200+ miles, no noticeable difference in the engine output or performance.

It's tough - but trusting that the engineers know there are metal shavings and gasket material left over from the manufacturing process is difficult... but they do know and they do design the engines and the lubrication systems to survive such "tough" environments.

These engine are "cleaned" and run at the factory before you or I ever lay our hands on them. Baby 'em or not they'll still run fine.

Finding a large metal shaving isn't indicative of the break-in process per se, rather more of something that's made it through the manufacturing process.

It takes a rather "large" manufacturing defect/mistake to actual "break or disable" an engine.

600 miles is a calculated best average time to change that factory oil.

 

[Treachery]

It's subjective. I know guys that change it at 20 miles and guys that have left it in for 1200+ miles, no noticeable difference in the engine output or performance.

It's tough - but trusting that the engineers know there are metal shavings and gasket material left over from the manufacturing process is difficult... but they do know and they do design the engines and the lubrication systems to survive such "tough" environments.

These engine are "cleaned" and run at the factory before you or I ever lay our hands on them. Baby 'em or not they'll still run fine.

Finding a large metal shaving isn't indicative of the break-in process per se, rather more of something that's made it through the manufacturing process.

It takes a rather "large" manufacturing defect/mistake to actual "break or disable" an engine.

600 miles is a calculated best average time to change that factory oil.

I keep waking the horse up to beat it some more.

There is design, and there's execution. If you haven't read or gathered that these bikes are assembled somewhat more casually than those assembled in say Austria, Munich, or Hamamatsu, you're not operating with the same context as the rest of us. If you've not read of engine and transmission issues on other 390 forums, then you should. I suspect that when you refer to the 20 mile and 1200 mile guys, you're not specifically referring to RC390 owners.

Your assumption of "cleaned and run" is not one that is necessarily correct, at least not to the extent you're willing to believe. Were that true, I see no way that these engines would produce the amount of crap at the first (sub 300 mile) oil change. I say that with absolute conviction, based on breaking in Japanese, German, Italian, and British motorcycle engines from brand new. I have never seen that much crap in the oil. It might take a large defect or mistake to break an engine, but it takes a lot less to shorten it's life or reduce it's performance. You can't honestly think that having metal shavings, flakes, gasket material and other spooge circulating in a new engine is somehow good for it, OR part of the manufacturer's plan.

As to 600 miles being a "calculated" or "best" anything, I suspect that's one of those "it's the way we've always done it" numbers. Contrast that to today's Porsches. First service: 10K miles. The precision of manufacturing (in the Porsche) is an order of magnitude greater than these engines. That is a calculated interval.

Obviously YMMV. I have no expert training, but I do have a lot of motorcycle experience, and I'm at least as well read on the subject as the next guy. I am of the considered opinion that my engine will run and last better having changed the oil earlier rather than later.

 

[OldVet]

I've broken in 29 new motorcycles in my day and have never seen crap like what came out of my RC 390 in any of them.