First service Issues 6+ hours and $370 wtf???

[RoninJames]

OK, so took my bike in for its first service yesterday.

Now i bought the bike used from a guy pretty far away w 230 miles on it. I wasnt going to ride it back to the original dealership for service when i had a dealer about 45 min away.
I called and made my service appt a week ago. KTM manual says 1.5 hour service time. The guy quoted a couple hours at $80 an hour plus the parts and oil. He said it would be around $180 and they could do while I wait.

I asked him to flush the coolant and add engine ice too which he said 15-30 minutes extra. OK.

So I dropped the bike off, and went to my finances work which was close by and hung out w her waiting for it to be finished.
About 1.5 hours later he calls and says "This is the first time we are doing service on one of these. KTM suggests a valve clearance check on first service. Your oil is done but its going to take us alot longer than this to get to the valves. KTM is way off with book time. We have to disassemble a ton of stuff just to get at the valves, thats gonna take us at least another hour. You dont have to have it done, but KTM has it on the list and since its a new bike i would do it if it was my bike." So i agreed.

So long story short.... i dropped my bike off at 12:30 and at 6:45 they were finally finished with it. They only charged me for 4 hours, (discounting 2) but still, who is at fault here? the dealersip? KTM for unrealistic book time? either way my $180 service cost me $370!

I dont want to fault the dealership because it took how long it took. I wanted my bike serviced properly and they did do a good job, also finding a hose that was not properly set up at assembly and had a hole melted in it because it was right against the header :/ I understand the first time these guys get one of these bikes for service they are not familiar with its assembly and will take longer than if they had done a bunch of them and know their way around it. But how does KTM book figure all this can be done in 1.5 hours then??? Did KTM mechanics at the factory do this and time it to come up with that number?? That is a HUGE difference 1.5 hours vs 6+

To finish off my wonderful day, as soon as they rolled the bike out of the garage the first drops of rain started falling and i wound up riding home 45 minutes in a thunderstorm.<br>i rode conservatively, but i will say the bike handled the wet pretty well.

 

[micah360]

my KTM dealer charged me 2 hours labor for the 600 mile service. But they charge $118 per hour. But still $84 cheaper than yours. I don't think they should be able charge you more hours just because they can't figure stuff out.

 

[Formula390]

my KTM dealer charged me 2 hours labor for the 600 mile service. But they charge $118 per hour. But still $84 cheaper than yours. I don't think they should be able charge you more hours just because they can't figure stuff out.

They can't. That's EXACTLY what the factory book labor time is FOR.

 

[KTMGene390]

My first service for comparison. Subtract $14.99 and CA sale tax for the Sticker kit not included as part of the 600 mile service.

 

[RoninJames]

My first service for comparison. Subtract $14.99 and CA sale tax for the Sticker kit not included as part of the 600 mile service.

so its comparable. tho idk if they did all the stuff listed on your checklist. hopefully they did.
i will have to check my tire pressure, i run 25psi front and 28psi rear as i ride twisties more aggresively on the street and the 31psi recommended is a bit much.

 

[ArkansasDave]

so its comparable. tho idk if they did all the stuff listed on your checklist. hopefully they did.
i will have to check my tire pressure, i run 25psi front and 28psi rear as i ride twisties more aggresively on the street and the 31psi recommended is a bit much.

What tires are you running?

 

[RoninJames]

What tires are you running?

the stock tires

 

[b0Xcrash]

the stock tires

That stinks about the cost.
1.5 for the service.....does that include the valves? cause from what I have seen and discussions here, people are talking about just short of removing the engine you can do it, even though KTM calls for removing the engine. Cause if not, what is that 2 hours? Does it take 2? so 1.5 + 2 is 3.5, .5 for the coolant and hose replacement sounds about right.

Right, with Gene did they check the valves, or inspect the valves? Cause everything else 1.5hr sounds right...but valve clearance, can you even check it without removing a ton of stuff? did they have a super long home-made feeler gauge with the right angle and just slip it in there and say, yep good, turn it tdc on the next one?

I can tell you though the factory books are BS. I worked as a mechanic at dealerships on European cars for years and the factory book is assembly line times. Total bs.
A secondary air valve is not .25 hrs.......even if you factor in removing the front clip, headlights, exhaust headers and etc. adding up those hours individual from the book for .5 here or .25 there, and even then sometimes the manufacture would deny certain claims on removing those parts, because on the assembly line, engine out of car and every other stinking part off it it, it took them .25 hours to install the valve with two hex bolts and the hose as well.

So the book is right and the times are fair? The reason I left that career 12 years ago regardless of the fact I was fast at it, tired of bolts breaking or who knows what else going wrong or being replaced and either eating the labor or having to charge extra for something that was out of my control, but I still felt bad about because it happened on my watch. Unless you cut corners or work ridiculous hours, to me it was not worth the effort or stress....and not to mention the fact you bought your own tools. Its an investment into your career, outside of special tools that someone could be using at the time you needed them, still its an investment in your own tools, toolbox, paying for uniforms.

I have worked in other careers, never did an IT position tell me I need to purchase all my own software for the systems at work, diags, anti-virus, encryption. Or other software that is used as tools. Or hardware components, I mean after all they are my tools..lol sorry did not mean to go on a tangent

 

[MrGrody]

I guess I'll be the only dude that simply empties the oil and throws new oil in it for first service then continue to ride it like I stole it.

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[Treachery]

my KTM dealer charged me 2 hours labor for the 600 mile service. But they charge $118 per hour. But still $84 cheaper than yours. I don't think they should be able charge you more hours just because they can't figure stuff out.

They can't. That's EXACTLY what the factory book labor time is FOR.

micah360 and Formula390 are both spot-on. The fact that they discounted two hours just means that they scrood you for two. I don't know about the legalities of it, but it's disreputable at best. Mine was $280, IIRC, but that included a KTM shirt that I got off the clearance rack. The dealer admitted the same thing, that KTM's estimate is incorrect, but they counted it as learning expense for them, They really can't tell you that the valves are optional, as that's listed as part of the required/recommended service. I wouldn't leave that off.

I guess I'll be the only dude that simply empties the oil and throws new oil in it for first service then continue to ride it like I stole it.

Don't do it. Look at the list of service items. I'm big on DIY, and I just bit the bullet and took it in.

 

[MrGrody]

Don't do it. Look at the list of service items. I'm big on DIY, and I just bit the bullet and took it in.

Other than oil , checking valve clearance is the only other "service" the rest of the list is just checking off things are not broken or falling off.

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[micahpearlman]

Some may want to consider learning to do basic DIY service. It's really not that hard and I personally find enjoyment from it. With the interwebs there are plenty of people willing and able to give almost instant instruction. You will save a lot of money with the investment in tools and knowledge. Totally understand if people don't have the gumption for DIY but then you should know and accept the costs of paying to play.


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[RoninJames]

Some may want to consider learning to do basic DIY service. It's really not that hard and I personally find enjoyment from it. With the interwebs there are plenty of people willing and able to give almost instant instruction. You will save a lot of money with the investment in tools and knowledge. Totally understand if people don't have the gumption for DIY but then you should know and accept the costs of paying to play.


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Micah, if it was just something like changing oil, or flushing the coolant then i would have no problem doing it myself. I am no mechanic by any means but i can turn a wrench and know hw to use tutorials. i did 90% of service stuff on all my other bikes. the ONLY reason i paid to have this done was the valve clearance check. i have NO idea how to do that and for the warranty reasons i figured having the KTM dealer do it and log it on the service website that would be worth it. and i figured since they would already have the plastics off i might as well pay an extra 20 bucks for them to flush the coolant this time.

I will NOT take it back for the 4500 mile check. i will do that shit myself after this ordeal especially.

 

[RC_AB]

I work in the industry, And yes the time quoted is off, KTM is good on the dirtbikes for giving a time requirement but they are off on the streetbikes, Polaris is bad for this as well. Just given that the manual even shows doing the work with the engine out of the frame shows that they didn't do their homework fully, No one is gonna remove the engine to do valves. Having said that, the 1.5 hours is probably the quoted time for checking them, that is almost reasonable..But if they need to be reshimmed then 1.5 isn't close at all. I had to reshim mine on my 390, it was the first time it was done in our shop, and it took forever, There's alot more to it then some other bikes mostly because it's so compact and trying to figure out working around things but the second time would be abit faster, It's not hard, just time consuming.

 

[Ryanthegreat1]

I am not in the industry but I am a pretty good wrench turner. I did my first service including changing the shims for the valves in about 3 hours. That was taking my time figuring out how the bike comes apart and also examining things as I went. I was not in any kind of hurry.

1.5 is probably accurate if you were getting down to business and knew what needed to come off to access the valves. My next check and adjustment will probably be closer to 1.5-2 hours.

 

[KTMGene390]

They did check the valve clearances and they were in spec. In fact, I called KTM and they said you do NOT have to have the valves checked at the first service to keep your warranty. I had mine done because I don't know how to do that and I was curious to see if they were out of spec or not. They actually took about 5 hours to complete the first service, it was their first RC 390 they worked on.

 

[RC_AB]

Yeah the second time around it would be quicker, knowing now what has to come apart to get to it. 5 hours isn't bad for the first one they've done.

 

[b0Xcrash]

I work in the industry, And yes the time quoted is off, KTM is good on the dirtbikes for giving a time requirement but they are off on the streetbikes, Polaris is bad for this as well. Just given that the manual even shows doing the work with the engine out of the frame shows that they didn't do their homework fully, No one is gonna remove the engine to do valves. Having said that, the 1.5 hours is probably the quoted time for checking them, that is almost reasonable..But if they need to be reshimmed then 1.5 isn't close at all. I had to reshim mine on my 390, it was the first time it was done in our shop, and it took forever, There's alot more to it then some other bikes mostly because it's so compact and trying to figure out working around things but the second time would be abit faster, It's not hard, just time consuming.

Yeah I wonder if KTM is doing like VW/Audi used to do in my wrench turning days...is there a book time to claim engine removal? So the 1.5 and then factor in the time it takes to remove engine, or each individual component removed and add it up?
I know we use to have to do this with VW warranty work to claim a fair rate for doing something that was grossly under-quoted in the books.

 

[Arahant]

Yeah I made a thread about same thing, they said my service would be 1.5 hours... was over 5 hours by the time they were done... and they spent over 30 minutes just trying to find out how to reset the service interval thing... in the end I had to look it up on here and find a youtube video which showed you just hold the button down for 10 seconds... he looked at me kinda sheepishly when we both seen that.. "10 seconds thats for ever!" lol..

But yeah this sounds like from alot of people like the normal time atleast for the first RC 390 they do at a shop(it was this dealers first rc 390 service aswell). I paid 450 cnd... which is 350ish american.

 

[Tito_gsx]

For those that did the 1st service how many needed valve adjusting? Sounds to me that this is most critical part for diy ers. Speaking for myself I am comfortable with all of the first service checklist except valve adjustment.