big_sur's Race Build

[big_sur]

That was my thought as well... "Why not just put a spacer in there for the stock fender???"

Fair, but you would have to make brackets to raise it up, not just put a spacer in there, and bracket making takes more time than hacking off the offending plastic, plus now you added 4\6 more fasteners to the bike that can come off\loose\etc. I have no delusions of this thing ever seeing the street again so this build is pretty race-focused with very little consideration given to reversing any of it.

 

[big_sur]

So a buddy welded on the bung for me today and so I finished up the exhaust install, or well I was trying to. 1) it sits pretty far away from the bike so I'm a little worried about dragging it. I might cut the mid-pipe down to tuck it a little closer to the swingarm and 2) I need to fab a hanger for it. Otherwise, it does make the bike actually sounds like a motorcycle.

[video=youtube;6JQPjtqgWVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JQPjtqgWVs&feature=youtu.be[/video]


Up next, PCV\autotune

 

[KTMGene390]

So a buddy welded on the bung for me today and so I finished up the exhaust install, or well I was trying to. 1) it sits pretty far away from the bike so I'm a little worried about dragging it. I might cut the mid-pipe down to tuck it a little closer to the swingarm and 2) I need to fab a hanger for it. Otherwise, it does make the bike actually sounds


Up next, PCV\autotune

Just curious why would you not utilize the stock o2 sensor bung location? It is in an excellent location. On a multiple cylinder bike you would want to put your o2 sensor in your current location or near the mid pipe. In a perfect situation you would have an o2 sensor on each header pipe but I think that is unnecessary and since you are dealing with a single cylinder bike the header should be the best location. It will work fine where you have it just wondering.

 

[big_sur]

Just curious why would you not utilize the stock o2 sensor bung location? It is in an excellent location. On a multiple cylinder bike you would want to put your o2 sensor in your current location or near the mid pipe. In a perfect situation you would have an o2 sensor on each header pipe but I think that is unnecessary and since you are dealing with a single cylinder bike the header should be the best location. It will work fine where you have it just wondering.

I thought you needed both sensors? I've never put one of these on a bike before so I very well may be wrong. The PCV has this "O2 optimizer" thing that plugs into the stock O2 sensor and the autotune instructions don't say anything about removing it so I assumed you needed them both. Second guessing that and searching the interwebz now, sounds like maybe that's the case if you don't reflash the ECU? Not really sure, so e-mail out to dynojet to clarify.

 

[KTMGene390]

I thought you needed both sensors? I've never put one of these on a bike before so I very well may be wrong. The PCV has this "O2 optimizer" thing that plugs into the stock O2 sensor and the autotune instructions don't say anything about removing it so I assumed you needed them both. Second guessing that and searching the interwebz now, sounds like maybe that's the case if you don't reflash the ECU? Not really sure, so e-mail out to dynojet to clarify.

I can't speak about the PCV, but the Bazzaz unit on my bike uses what they call an "o2 stabilizer" which is just fancy terminology for a resistor that plugs into the stock connector harness tricking the ECU into thinking it is still receiving a signal from the o2 sensor which is actually disconnected. The stock o2 sensor is a narrow band sensor its only job is to keep your bike as close to 14.7 A/F as possible (lean, emissions) and cannot read air fuel ratios across the board. On the other hand both the Bazzaz Z-AFM and PCV Auto-Tune use a wideband o2 sensor. There is no reason I can see to have both and most likely the instructions are for if you are only using the PCV. Much like the Bazzaz unit, I'm sure there are separate instructions telling you to keep the resistor plugged in and remove the stock o2 sensor and replace it with the one provided.

 

[big_sur]

Yeah, I mean from a functional perspective, I definitely get that you shouldn't need two O2 sensors, but I don't have any insight into their manipulation of the ECU and I write software so I know the kind of hacky shit that goes into code to make it work sometimes. I'm going to wait for a response from dynojet before moving forward, but apparently you do need both on an R1, maybe different for our bikes? I'll post up their response when I get it.

Power Commander 5/AutoTune install questions/help, 2011 R1. - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums

Yes, that is correct; with one exception. If your ECU is reflashed to do so, you can remove the stock o2 sensor.
Let me know if you have any further questions.


Regards,
Dynojet Research Inc.
2191 Mendenhall Dr. Suite 105
North Las Vegas, NV 89081
1-800-992-4993



From: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:31 AM
To: DynoJet
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Powercommander Technical Support Inquiry


I'm having a heck of a time understanding this.... am I supposed to be running both the stock O2 sensor and the AutoTune wideband sensor? In otherwords do i need to have 2 bungs in my mid-pipe?



Thanks,
-John

Sent via mobile device, please excuse typos, etc.[/COLOR]

 

[micahpearlman]

For the RC you can't just use a resistor to fake an O2 sensor. You need an O2 "simulator" -- An O2 or lambda simulator is used to send a simulated oxygen/lambda sensor signal to an engine ECU running in closed loop mode. O2 sensors generate voltages between 0.9V (rich) and 0.1V (lean). A properly running simulator will generate an oscillation of 1-2Hz at 0.6V to 0.3V (though check your specific application). I started development of open source hardware but never bothered finishing it (https://github.com/micahpearlman/zero-o2-simulator)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KTMGene390]

Yeah, I mean from a functional perspective, I definitely get that you shouldn't need two O2 sensors, but I don't have any insight into their manipulation of the ECU and I write software so I know the kind of hacky shit that goes into code to make it work sometimes. I'm going to wait for a response from dynojet before moving forward, but apparently you do need both on an R1, maybe different for our bikes? I'll post up their response when I get it.

Power Commander 5/AutoTune install questions/help, 2011 R1. - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums

What I mean is you should be able to remove the stock O2 sensor as with either the Bazzaz or PCV which both use an O2 simulator. When I got my bike back from Bazzaz it was disconnected but still installed in the stock bung location doing absolutely nothing since it was not plugged in. I have since replaced it with the Bazzaz Z-AFM O2 sensor. Perhaps DynoJet does things differently in which case if the O2 simulator Bazzaz's uses is a separate connector/wire maybe you can use that or just keep the stock O2 sensor connected.

These are the directions on the Bazzaz unit:

1. Locate the factory green 4 pin O2 sensor connector which can be found on the left hand side of the bike near the factory CKPS/Neutral connector.

2. Disconnect the factory O2 sensor and install the Bazzaz O2 stabilizer.

3. Locate a factory ground and connect the O2 stabilizer’s ground

 

[DCMoney]

Here's what Dynojet told me about the autotune with the stock o2 sensor.

We were not able to develop an O2 eliminator for this bike model. The supplied O2 Optimizer (i.e. O2 controller) is the only method we can offer for getting the stock closed loop range to perform better than stock.

If the bike detects faults, it could go into a fail-safe mode where it runs richer and/or retards ignition timing.

Unless you can reprogram the bike’s stock ECM to disable the stock O2 sensor, it would be recommended to reinstall the stock sensor with the supplied O2 Optimizer.

If you want to run Auto-tune, I suggest welding an additional bung for it. You also need to keep Auto-tune OFF in the stock closed loop range. Keep the Target AFR set to zero and the Fuel Table set to a blanket fuel change of 8 across the selected cell range of this picture:

Pic is hard to read but it shows from 2%-60% and 1000rpm - 7250rpm set the value to 8. I did this, the bike feels better but I haven't raced it since installing the PCV with autotune.

EDIT: Also if you don't run the stock o2 sensor you'll get a check engine light.

 

[DCMoney]

Snip... 1) it sits pretty far away from the bike so I'm a little worried about dragging it. I might cut the mid-pipe down to tuck it a little closer to the swingarm snip....

Incase others are reading this thread and not the other one.

To help the exhaust can connector pipe that slips on the mid pipe with resonator not drag at full lean consider this. You can shorten the mid pipe outlet that the connecter pipe slips on by up to 3/4". This will make the front portion of the system pivot in closer to the bike for more lean clearance. At 5/8" cut off you can still use the supplied spring. At 3/4" I used .032 safety wire instead of the spring (we have to safety wire it anyway). You may be able to find a new spring at a hardware store that is shorter?

 

[big_sur]

Here's what Dynojet told me about the autotune with the stock o2 sensor.

Pic is hard to read but it shows from 2%-60% and 1000rpm - 7250rpm set the value to 8. I did this, the bike feels better but I haven't raced it since installing the PCV with autotune.

EDIT: Also if you don't run the stock o2 sensor you'll get a check engine light.

Thanks, this is really good info. I wish they would publish stuff like this, but then I would probably reconsider purchasing in the first place if they said it wasn't effective for 60% of the range. So I have seen some people with the PCV that have gotten really good gains in the mid-range; I wonder if those gains will revert as the stock ecu counter-adjusts?

Does anyone know if the akra re-flash disables the stock O2 sensor\changes the closed loop range?

 

[KTMGene390]

Here's what Dynojet told me about the autotune with the stock o2 sensor.

We were not able to develop an O2 eliminator for this bike model. The supplied O2 Optimizer (i.e. O2 controller) is the only method we can offer for getting the stock closed loop range to perform better than stock.

If the bike detects faults, it could go into a fail-safe mode where it runs richer and/or retards ignition timing.

Unless you can reprogram the bike’s stock ECM to disable the stock O2 sensor, it would be recommended to reinstall the stock sensor with the supplied O2 Optimizer.

If you want to run Auto-tune, I suggest welding an additional bung for it. You also need to keep Auto-tune OFF in the stock closed loop range. Keep the Target AFR set to zero and the Fuel Table set to a blanket fuel change of 8 across the selected cell range of this picture:


EDIT: Also if you don't run the stock o2 sensor you'll get a check engine light.

This is very interesting and disappointing as the PCV is generally considered better than the Bazzaz unit, looks like DynoJet dropped the ball. Perhaps later they will develop a proper O2 eliminator. It took Bazzaz an additional 2 weeks just to develop a proper 02 simulator using my bike allowing you to completely disconnect and remove the stock 02 sensor. When installed per instructions it does not generate an FI light or error codes and the bike runs correctly. Also, I'm using the Bazzaz Z-AFM O2 sensor in place of the stock O2 sensor and it works perfectly as designed.

 

[DCMoney]

Thanks, this is really good info. I wish they would publish stuff like this, but then I would probably reconsider purchasing in the first place if they said it wasn't effective for 60% of the range. So I have seen some people with the PCV that have gotten really good gains in the mid-range; I wonder if those gains will revert as the stock ecu counter-adjusts?

Does anyone know if the akra re-flash disables the stock O2 sensor\changes the closed loop range?

I felt the same way after I found that out. Overall I think it's worth it though, especially for racing where I spend most of my time above 7k anyway, and should be above 60% throttle when applying power too.

First run with the PCV and autotune the bike felt way better though, made me feel better about the purchase.

 

[DCMoney]

This is very interesting and disappointing as the PCV is generally considered better than the Bazzaz unit, looks like DynoJet dropped the ball. Perhaps later they will develop a proper O2 eliminator. It took Bazzaz an additional 2 weeks just to develop a proper 02 simulator using my bike allowing you to completely disconnect and remove the stock 02 sensor. When installed per instructions it does not generate an FI light or error codes and the bike runs correctly. Also, I'm using the Bazzaz Z-AFM O2 sensor in place of the stock O2 sensor and it works perfectly as designed.

Note DJ said "The supplied O2 Optimizer (i.e. O2 controller) is the only method we can offer for getting the stock closed loop range to perform better than stock." So this tells me that they could have provided buyers with a solution to eliminate the stock o2 sensor but were not happy with the performance results in the closed loop range.

If someone wants to send me a Bazzaz I'll test them both...

 

[tecknojoe]

On the brake side rearset - on the lever pivot bolt, did you lock tire that? I'm not sure I should since its recessed and there's no way to get a grip on it to take it out

also how did you tape the side stand sensor? No matter where I put the little gold magnet on the little plastic "T" piece, I always get the side stand down indicator on the dash


brake side rearset:

 

[big_sur]

On the brake side rearset - on the lever pivot bolt, did you lock tire that? I'm not sure I should since its recessed and there's no way to get a grip on it to take it out

also how did you tape the side stand sensor? No matter where I put the little gold magnet on the little plastic "T" piece, I always get the side stand down indicator on the dash

I didn't, but I haven't really had much trouble with that side. It's really only the shift side that has too much play.

I turned the bike on and put the magnet on there until the indicator went away and just taped it up. If I recall, I believe it's on one side of the long section of the T.

 

[tecknojoe]

ugh I'll check again and see if I can get it

I think I'm riding the track day Friday at PPIR. I'm not sure if it's licensed racer's only. If you want to ride you can pit in my garage. I'm scrambling to get the RC done in time since my R6 isn't done yet, so i'll probly have it out this weekend with a turkey pan.

 

[big_sur]

Thanks for the offer, but it's tough for me to take off weekdays. Enjoy and let me know how it goes.

 

[big_sur]

Word back from dynotjet, consensus was correct: The stock O2 sensor must remain active and in the exhaust (even if using Auto-tune). Auto-tune can only be effectively used in the 80% and 100% throttle columns or any throttle position above 7500 RPM.

 

[Runner2k]

Your bike looks really nice man! Keep up the great work!

I don't own a RC 390 but I've been considering to get one. How's the Braking system on this bike? (Single front rotor, Caliper, Stock master cylinder..)

Are you looking to get this end upgraded as well?

I've found this...
Brembo RCS19 Hydraulic Clutch and Brake mod - final - KTM Duke 390 Forum