DIY O2/Lambda Eliminator

[micahpearlman]

I've been researching building a DIY O2/Lambda sensor eliminator and came across the following for the Super Duke:

http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8258

A O2 eliminator should trick the ECU into thinking it is in stoichiometric and break the closed loop cycle. This is useful on the 390 as if you are running a piggyback like the PowerTronic it won't work properly when the ECU is in closed loop mode (below approximately 4-5000 RPM).

The trick to a DIY version is just getting the resistance correct to feed the ECU the correct voltage. I'm guessing that the Super Duke version discussed above is a good starting point but will likely require a bit of reverse engineering on the 390 to get the precise voltage.

In theory I would imagine you could go even fancier and attach a POT instead of a static resistor and you could "tune" richer or leaner.

I'm in CA and still don't have a bike yet so I can't test any of this stuff out. Be interesting to see what others come up with.

 

[mr-fabricator]

Did a little reserch myself , if all o2 sensors work the same and produce the same voltage reading for a given air/ fuel ratio then i would have thought that a eliminator with the resister values from a bike that uses the same 02 sensor would work ???

Could be wrong tho ??

 

[micahpearlman]

Did a little reserch myself , if all o2 sensors work the same and produce the same voltage reading for a given air/ fuel ratio then i would have thought that a eliminator with the resister values from a bike that uses the same 02 sensor would work ???

Could be wrong tho ??

I think this may be a safe assumption (especially if it is a 4 wire Bosch). But I've never done it. Easy enough to try. Worse that can happen is that you get an error code that won't clear out without taking it to KTM service.

FYI: Connectors can be found: http://www.cycleterminal.com/mt-series-090.html

I don't know what the RC connector is specifically but my guess is that it is a 4 pin MT .090

 

[mr-fabricator]

Not looked into connectors , will probably just solder the wires and heat shrink . Think i paid 23 bucks for the eliminator ( no particular brand ) i found one with 4 wires to connect up rather than the model specific plug in type. if it doesnt work i havnt lost much and will look into it further . Most if not all o2 sensors give a reading from 0.2 to 0.9v so thats why i came to the conclusion that any eliminator must give the same "trick) voltage

Regards lee

 

[cjwell]

Hold on a few seconds fellows... Several things. Yes all O2 sensors work the same way, BUT the what the ecu sees/wants are 2 TOTALLY different things. Old non-heated are just voltage back, new 4 wire (heated) have 2 circuits ecu is looking for. Heater circuit for amp draw, and voltage from AFR. Older more primitive ecus you can just cheat with a fixed voltage back, or no voltage, just a load for the heater circuit, some even new ones i.e. S1000RR you can just unplug and it won't even throw a code and you can map, new MTS/Diavel/Pani's are a little sharper. They will let you "cheat" for a bit, then the ecu is smart enough to know that it should be seeing an oscillating change (lean/rich, V down/up). The ecu is making injection duration adjustments constantly, and when it doesn't see a change in O2 voltage return it isn't happy (why I tune these at an ecu level). I do not know what the logic is in the Bosch ecu. My guess is its pretty simple, the ecu is very capable but probably "dumbed" down for this application. I know for a fact the PCV has been tested and harness is being built as we speak. Just sit tight and you/we will have a tuning solution AND yes it has O2 eliminator, ignition timing and rev x-tend. Quickshifter should be available with it too! As soon as they're done I will have one. The PCV will be included in my engine kit if you need one with my map(s).

 

[micahpearlman]

Can you measure the resistance on your O2 eliminator? Curious if it matches with the howto link above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[micahpearlman]

Yeah I saw some eliminators are called "simulators" and provide a continuously variable voltage. The DYI one used a 555 timer (Oxygen sensor simulator (for 96-98) | MKIV.com). I know PCV will come out someday (they commented on EDR Performance instagram of a 390 build). I've got the Powertronic piggback and it doesn't have a O2 eliminator (which is a drag). Plus I DYI if it is simply a couple of resistors or even a 555.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cjwell]

I can measure some I have around the shop tomorrow. Not sure that they will work for 390 though but you can try . I will spec out the 1290 SD one, best bet probably.

 

[mr-fabricator]

I have ordered the 4 wire version , i only looked into an eliminator as my o2 sensor is fried ( i think ) and while looking for advice / research i came accross the eliminator . For tesearch purposes i thought id give it a go and the duke 690 forums say they smooth out lower rev range considerably , nonsnatchy throttle ..

Im running the race dynamics ecu also but will swap it out for the power commander once available ,

Regards lee

 

[mr-fabricator]

So the eliminator came in the post today and after a temporary install the result was ...

fail ......... :-( it throws up fault code 45 , lamda sensor fault .

perhaps the rc ecu doesnt see a varying voltage and triggers a fault ?? It was worth a try but dont think ill invest in one of the timer type eliminators , will wait and see whats made specific for the duke/rc 390 .

If anyone has more of an electronics mind and tries anything keep us posted ..

regards lee

 

[Ausracer]

Hi, All. A little off topic but does any one have a wiring diagram for the RC390 AU version. I have a PDF for the Duke 390 but they are not the same and I haven't worked out how to start a new thread.

 

[mr-fabricator]

Hello mate , hit forum tab , scroll down to electronics tab , look top left and theirs a tab that says start new thread ..

see this thread also. http://www.rc390-forum.com/forum/engine-and-technical-discussion/154-ecu-engine-control-mods.html.


what specificly do u need the diagram for ? FASTEDDY may be able to help with diagrams etc

regards lee

 

[Ausracer]

Hi I'm changing out the standard throttle and start/kill switch. Ive belled the old one out but that's where I noticed a difference between the RC wiring and the Duke diagram. Also its always good to have a copy, if you've noticed the amount of relays on board then without a diagram any fault finding in future would be quite difficult. Cheers

 

[Fasteddy]

Hi Ausracer,

Duke 390 Repair Manual (Full Version - 204pages).pdf

Is the manual I have been using, Down loaded from the duke forum as described in some previous thread. The wiring diagram in it is allegedly the same as a RC just connections etc. in different locations. So far I believe that as far as I can tell to be the case, The color code is weird to me, tracer is first / major second but there is a key for the color code.

I have confirmed the connections on the kickstand switch, water temp sender, alarm option switch, OBD II and so far all match, I just looked at the 'S23' Switch and it matches my RC, and functions as depicted,

from page 6
bl-ye = ground
br = 12 vdc via fuse F6
wh - br = power to LED's on left control
bu = brakelights - (the actual brake light switch connects into the S23 unit)

On page 1 is the part that looks like most motorcycle setups, momentary , slave relay / high current solenoid (relay) and kill switch.

I searched for the RC diagram and this was the only one I found. it is correct but hard to follow, easier if you print and tape together...

View attachment 245View attachment 246

 

[Ausracer]

Hi Fast eddy thanks for your help. The diagram you are using is the one I've got. When I belled out the start /stop run switch I found the following. The grey red is a common in the switch unit. This is made to yellow red for the start function.
It is also made to grey blue for the run function. The white orange that is in the X5 harness plug is not wired in the switch plug. This caused me to check further and I found the following, the RC has 7 control relays (6 in battery box and 1 on RHS) It also has a flasher unit and headlight control unit and a termination unit which are not shown on the 2014 duke diagram. My conclusion is not to trust the duke diagram. Cheers

 

[Fasteddy]

Interesting, does yours have the LED driver and LED's to light the switches in it?
I asked about purchasing a shop manual when I picked mine up and was told I could buy one on CD on the web, no luck so far on that.
What did you use to "bell" out the switches? ohm meter / volt meter? or test light?
I am getting close to needing an oil filter so I'll ask again about the correct manual when I pick it up.
Where are the headlight control unit and a termination located, can you post a pic?
The term bell confused me for a bit, then, ring ring I figured it out, our term would be ring out a circuit ;^)

good luck

Fasteddy

 

[Ausracer]

Yes mine has the LED driver and LEDS in it. Sorry for confusing term I used an ohm meter on ohms (Electrician / Industrial Electronics by trade). The headlight control, flasher unit and the termination unit are located on the LHS frame side. You should be able to see them if you remove the left fairing side. The termination unit Im not sure about havent investigated yet Can bus termination??

 

[Fasteddy]

No problem on the communication not being clear, it's one of the neat things about this forum talking to people on the other side of the world, there is a vehicle control module I wonder if that is one of the things on the LHS? CAN bus does not use a termination like IEEE 488, it would be interesting to find a dealer that could compare the difference between the RC and duke diagrams, even more interesting to compare a non abs model with an abs version. My guess would be for simplicity same ECU different connection to speed sensor.

i am not doing any modifications to my bike but have a keen curiosity about it. Its supposed to be foul weather next couple of days so maybe I will explore a bit

 

[cjwell]

Two items one back on topic one relating to OT discussion. Standard resistors like previous bikes to cheat will 02 will not work. It is wise enough it has to see varience in voltage back to ecu. The ktm cup switch and throttle are orderable now, throttle is in stock, switch will be available late May. Should make life easier for converting.

 

[micahpearlman]

Two items one back on topic one relating to OT discussion. Standard resistors like previous bikes to cheat will 02 will not work. It is wise enough it has to see varience in voltage back to ecu. The ktm cup switch and throttle are orderable now, throttle is in stock, switch will be available late May. Should make life easier for converting.

@cjwell What is the KTM "Cup Switch" and throttle?


FYI: I just prototyped a circuit to simulate a narrow band O2 sensor which simulates the oscillation of the closed loop circuit (not a straight resistor hack that doesn't work for this bike). It all checks out on the 'scope but now I just need a bike to try it on! I have a very small run of PCB boards being made (should have them in another week) and can make more and sell as a kit (around $20-25) or it's all open source if anyone wants to copy it and build there own (I'll post a GitHub and OSHPark link when its closer to being done). This would only initially be for the hardcore tweakers who really want to dive into the gory details of ECU hacking. For most non-tweakers you should just wait and get the Power Commander when it comes out and go ride the shit out of it and not worry about these things.