guzz46
New Member
Strange, I have about 30mm of rider sag too in the rear, with roughly 10mm of static sag, and no squatting issues for me.
gbabyracing
Member
Your numbers aren't making sense to me.
My numbers (measured) I have a rider range I have to deal with (endurance program). My lightest rider is 120lbs and fast - heaviest 175. She likes a bike taunt I like it loose.
.9 springs up front. 20mm free sag - 34.5mm rider sag (I need to re-measure my front preload spacers)
550lb spring rear. 8mm free sag - 37mm rider sag (JRi rear shock)
The bike's on a rail...
gbaby,
Our numbers are almost exactly the same minus preload. In the rear I have no static and 30 rider, you have 8 static and 37 rider (29 difference). In the front we have .90 springs, I'm around 15 static and 30 rider (15 difference) and you have 20 static and 35 rider (15 difference). You are just running 5mm less preload in the front and 8 mm less preload in the back.
You also have a shock that resists sudden movement by virtue of some compression damping. Which mine does not. Guzz does not have any squatting issues with the factory shock, but is still running the dual rate spring.
My expectation is that either a different shock with the constant spring, or the stock spring back on the stock shock would likely improve the problem for me.
Our numbers are almost exactly the same minus preload. In the rear I have no static and 30 rider, you have 8 static and 37 rider (29 difference). In the front we have .90 springs, I'm around 15 static and 30 rider (15 difference) and you have 20 static and 35 rider (15 difference). You are just running 5mm less preload in the front and 8 mm less preload in the back.
You also have a shock that resists sudden movement by virtue of some compression damping. Which mine does not. Guzz does not have any squatting issues with the factory shock, but is still running the dual rate spring.
My expectation is that either a different shock with the constant spring, or the stock spring back on the stock shock would likely improve the problem for me.
gbabyracing
Member
Good Luck with your project
gbabyracing
Member
Tough question... You could write a book about that. I hope this helps you
The cartridge kits allow improved damping characteristics over the very basic cartridges in the stock forks. They also provide easy full adjustability for rebound, compression, and spring preload track side. They are setup with the correct springs for your weight and riding purposes and can be customized internally for advanced applications/needs (tuning for high speed vs low speed operation for example), The different units have different pricing due to quality, extent of adjustment, and where they are made. The damping characteristics can vary from one unit to another as well depending on the designer - builders philosophy. Your choice also will depend on what you local tuner likes and is comfortable with. Your choice of shock can influence which front you choose for best front to rear balance. For instance I don't care to mix Ohlins TTX with a non TTX because they tune differently.
If you are a track day - street rider, I think spending $1200 + install is pretty stiff for the front end on a 40HP street bike. Especially if you don't really understand how to fine adjust. If you are an expert road racer or high level amateur, you will benefit from the cartridges due to the variety of tracks you go to and how quickly you need to adapt the machine for new tracks and quickly changing conditions. I backed off from my cartridge upgrade because I wanted to test what could be done with the existing front for the average rider or cost concerned racer. I will upgrade mine yet this year for our 2016 season endurance racing effort with this machine (we will be running nationally and will need rapid 2 practice session tuning ability. The version of cartridges I will use is now not yet determined due to the option varieties that are emerging. I have initially found track testing, that front end can be made to handle conditions well enough for a lot of riders purposes - even for racing. But you need a shock that will allow you to balance the rear to the front. I will give you an update on that after this weekend when the girls and I sprint race it in New Orleans.
For a street rider:
Go ride it as is; have great fun on a wonderful bike.
For a track day or performance street rider:
Upgrade the rear shock. Don't do it with a GSXR whatever re-sprung shock that Joe put together... Buy a unit built for this machine. If you are a performance track rider you will need/want rear ride height adjustability, rebound adjustment for sure, and a floating piston design to avoid cavitation issues when working the unit hard. Upgrade the front springs to straight weight units sized for your weight. Front damping adjustment is handled by changing oil weight - just like if you had racetech emulators. The front comes with 4wt oil. Put 5wt minimum and consider 7wt. (We ran 5 in testing and will run 7 this weekend 'cause it'll be a lot hotter). Keep the rear adjustment simple. Focus on the rebound damping and learn to make it match the front rebound. If you have compression adjustment - set it to half way and forget for now.
Say - $900 and that includes having someone install the front springs for you. If you have never opened cartridges before consider having someone do it for you
For racer:
you know what you need
Bagwell I'm thinking you probably need 1.0 front springs to start.
If you use this strategy - you can always add the cartridges later as you feel the need or the want!
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Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I think springs front and maybe a rear shock at this point. I was dragging the belly pan at TWS a couple of weekends ago and not reallly pushing it that hard. The stock suspension needs a lil work for my weight. I look forward to more options coming out for this bike for sure.
Thanks,
Vaughn
Thanks,
Vaughn
gbabyracing
Member
I'll give you all some more info later today.
gbabyracing
Member
Springs:
you could use standard Racetech or Ohlins. I had some springs on hand so I used them. I had an Ohlins .9 spring that were shorter than the stock unit and I thought the .9 would be a good start point for us based on our other bikes setups. I cut a spacer to equalize the length to the stocker and added 5mm preload which was used on the .5-.9 progressive stocker. When I return to KS I will also, for my purposes test a .85 with more preload. The spring I have on hand for that is a racetech .85 that is like new. You could also use Racetech front spring calculator to determine correct spring for you, though I find their recommendation a bit on the light side for my racing.
you could use standard Racetech or Ohlins. I had some springs on hand so I used them. I had an Ohlins .9 spring that were shorter than the stock unit and I thought the .9 would be a good start point for us based on our other bikes setups. I cut a spacer to equalize the length to the stocker and added 5mm preload which was used on the .5-.9 progressive stocker. When I return to KS I will also, for my purposes test a .85 with more preload. The spring I have on hand for that is a racetech .85 that is like new. You could also use Racetech front spring calculator to determine correct spring for you, though I find their recommendation a bit on the light side for my racing.
Thanks a lot!
gbabyracing
Member
When I get back from this race weekend I will measure some springs for you and get a part number that you can order with.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sonic also has springs that fit. They have a 36x250mm version from an 09-11 Kawisaki ZX6R that drops in with a longer spacer. I weigh 150 pounds without gear and started with .90 springs and have since dropped to .80. If I need to split the difference I'll just drop a .90 in one side to get a .85 combined.
-Sean
-Sean
So is that the actual spring that people are using ID and length wise?
gbabyracing
Member
Take the stock spring measure it's extended length. Measure the replacement springs extended length subtract that from the original spring measurement. Add 15mm to start for preload and cut a piece of PVC pipe to that length and install. Check your sag and adjust the preload for proper rider sag.
What's the stock spring diameter and length?
