Hot Hot Heat - Or How to Cool Your RC390.

[unicorn_violence]

I thought the point of Silicone hoses is that they stand up better to higher pressures. Particularly in tuned engines the temperatures increase as does the pressure so performance hoses are better than OE which may fail.

Also add they look a bit Gucci too!

yes that is one of the main reasons, along with more rigidity so the hose wont collapse over time. they also dont weld to the fittings so they are easier to remove. my specific point is probably the least effective out of all the benefits, but a slight benefit non the less

 

[mcycle1]

I have a 2016 RC that has just over 200mi on it. Almost all of the miles were on its first track day. I had to switch to Engine Ice as I was track prepping the bike. I also installed the higher pressure cap. What I found when I drained the coolant was something I've seen before as I have been a motorcycle mechanic for over 20yrs. The coolant appeared to be straight coolant not 50/50. It was thick and bright neon yellow. I've worked with brands that have had recalls for this and the coolant I drained from my RC looked the same. This is just an opinion and speculation as I did not test the coolant. As I flushed the system with distilled water into the same drain pan the coolant began to look normal after mixed with water. On assembly lines most manufactures buy coolant un mixed in large quantities and it gets mixed on the line. If the water is shut off you get straight coolant. Straight coolant will not do a good job of dispersing heat efficiently. A test ride in 90*F heat and the bike was running cooler than normal.


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[MrGrody]

my specific point is probably the least effective out of all the benefits, but a slight benefit non the less

Just for sake of argument I'll chime in on this one.

"Freezing temperatures" a superior insulated hose will prevent liquid from freezing.

"Hot temperatures" a superior insulated hose is doing nothing temperature wise as far as improving cooling. It's effectively trapping the heat in the hose and dispersing less heat.

Granted these better hoses offer pros such as durability under stress, quality, and longevity.

But they sure as hell are not going to improve cooling. Engine heat radiating off motor is pushed away from cooling system via air flow.

In theory in a hot environment the hotter that hose gets the better. Exposing more heat to a cooling flow of air.

The only way these superior insulated hoses are gunna improve cooling is if your running the liquid thru longer lengths of hose. In an extreme example if the coolant hoses ran 15 feet all around the bike it would allow the liquid more time to disperse heat before returning to the engine.

 

[unicorn_violence]

Just for sake of argument I'll chime in on this one.

"Freezing temperatures" a superior insulated hose will prevent liquid from freezing.

"Hot temperatures" a superior insulated hose is doing nothing temperature wise as far as improving cooling. It's effectively trapping the heat in the hose and dispersing less heat.

Granted these better hoses offer pros such as durability under stress, quality, and longevity.

But they sure as hell are not going to improve cooling. Engine heat radiating off motor is pushed away from cooling system via air flow.

In theory in a hot environment the hotter that hose gets the better. Exposing more heat to a cooling flow of air.

fair enough. if this is the case, what would you consider as a reason for their claims of having a cooler running engine with silicone hoses? every company boasts about their product, but i'm assuming there is some valid reason behind what they are saying. better flow of coolant/ thermostat delete etc (i wouldn't think deleting thermo would matter after the engine is up to temp)

 

[MrGrody]

fair enough. if this is the case, what would you consider as a reason for their claims of having a cooler running engine with silicone hoses? every company boasts about their product, but i'm assuming there is some valid reason behind what they are saying. better flow of coolant/ thermostat delete etc (i wouldn't think deleting thermo would matter after the engine is up to temp)

As a whole I would lean towards them saying that it would help create a cooler engine based on a controlled environment. Company advertising is usually 90%crap and 10%blended truth.

Exhaust companies will boast horsepower gains and you'll see the little * above it. They tested in a controlled environment with less variables then the public has.

Or they simply can boast that it will help with cooling when the whole system is used . For example switching hoses radiator reserve and fan as a group. Shampoo companies are famous for this. They compare their product to a cheap dirt brand and use their entire system of products verse 1 of the competitions. Fine print is fine for a reason. Nobody reads it.

I currently own a small business and my competitors often inflate prices on frivolous insignificant things.

I however do not.

Back to the original debate tho. A company saying a better insulated hose will cool a bike has to have more to the story. Imagine a company stating that their double walled insulated coffee container will help keep your boiling coffee cooler cuz it's double walled.

First problem I'd have with a company is "blended truth" advertising. Second would be cost of product vs retail amount.

 

[Andy]

Q. If you're going for a set of silicon hoses what colour Blue or Orange?

 

[unicorn_violence]

Q. If you're going for a set of silicon hoses what colour Blue or Orange?

orange of course!

reading the fine print is always the case with any product. nevertheless i might still get these for durability on the track. maybe i can hassle them to provide some actual data on that "cooler engine" claim.
thanks for you point MrGrody. it is a lot easier for me to critically think about the other side of the argument when the rebuttals aren't just a bunch of snarky comments.

i suppose i owe an apology to DyGear for VERY successfully hijacking his thread into a debate about hoses

 

[stevieboy]

Ouch! Snarky is as snarky does.

 

[MrGrody]

thanks for you point MrGrody. i suppose i owe an apology to DyGear for VERY successfully hijacking his thread into a debate about hoses

It's the internet. All threads get hijacked lol. And ya I still firmly agree with you that they are indeed an upgrade.

 

[Chris The Welder]

By the time I got here, I forgot what this was about.

 

[Dygear]

i suppose i owe an apology to DyGear for VERY successfully hijacking his thread into a debate about hoses

Nah, it's about the cooling system as a whole, so I think this fits as on topic.

It's the internet. All threads get hijacked lol. And ya I still firmly agree with you that they are indeed an upgrade.

As MrGrody points out so eloquently.

---

In other news, I got the Engine Ice today from Amazon ... Still waiting for the pesky fan replacement. *Fingers and Toes Crossed*.

 

[MrGrody]

In other news, I got the Engine Ice today from Amazon ... Still waiting for the pesky fan replacement. *Fingers and Toes Crossed*.

I haven't yet flushed out stock coolant mix but when I do I'll be switching to distilled water / water wetter. Have had great results with the stuff on previous bikes.

 

[TennisFreak]

Is the stock coolant really that bad?
Will I get a significant benefit from something like Engine Ice?

I never really got too much into coolant performance, I've always just bought Prestone Antifreeze and put it in.

 

[D. Flynn]

Double check the engine ice. I'm pretty sure it won't protect your engine in the winter when it's stored. Think I read that on the label somewhere. I was going to use it, but after reading that, I added the water wetter concentrate to anti freeze. I think all of the ready to use formulas do not contain any anti freeze.

 

[mcycle1]

Double check the engine ice. I'm pretty sure it won't protect your engine in the winter when it's stored. Think I read that on the label somewhere. I was going to use it, but after reading that, I added the water wetter concentrate to anti freeze. I think all of the ready to use formulas do not contain any anti freeze.

This is right off the product description on their website.
"effectively keeping boil-over temperatures to 256°F or less and freeze-up protection to -26° F. “Right out of the bottle”


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[Dygear]

I have the fan now as well. Just waiting until I have some time to do the install. Looks fairly easy, famous last words should have it done today. Just need to pickup some blue loctite. While I'm at it, instead of cutting into this fan, can't I just use a longer screw ... I should be able to find SOMETHING that will work here without having to dremel this fan.

If you don't want to cut into the OEM wires, take a look at this guy's post who unpinned the OEM connector and the SPAL connector to make them compatible with each other. I'm going to do this as I don't want to use soldering equipment right now. [Adding this to the OP]

---

Is the stock coolant really that bad?
Will I get a significant benefit from something like Engine Ice?

I never really got too much into coolant performance, I've always just bought Prestone Antifreeze and put it in.

Double check the engine ice. I'm pretty sure it won't protect your engine in the winter when it's stored. Think I read that on the label somewhere. I was going to use it, but after reading that, I added the water wetter concentrate to anti freeze. I think all of the ready to use formulas do not contain any anti freeze.

(Front Size)

Don't Lose Horsepower...USE
[size=+1]Engine Ice[/size]
High Performance Coolant

• Runs Cooler
• Non-Toxic
• Biodegradable
• Phosphate Free
• Silicate Free

Proven to Reduce Operating Temperatures
Ready to Use
Premixed with Dionized Water 1/2 Gal. (1.89L)[/b]

(Back Size)

ENGINE ICE was developed in the extreme heat & humidity of southern Florida and offers unsurpassed heat reduction & protection, while eliminating water pump seal & gasket failures.
ENGINE ICE offers proven reductions in overall operating temperatures. This reduction in operating temperatures allows you engine to main MAXIMUM HORSEPOWER, LONGER.
ENGINE ICE meets or exceed the industry's performance standards of ASTM D 5216.
[size=-1]ESSENTIALLY NON-TOXIC, PHOSPHATE FREE, SILICATE FREE & ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFER:[/size]
ENGINE ICE is premixed with dionized water for use direct in your cooling system. No need to add water. The deionized water eliminates the harmful minerals and chemicals found in even the finest bottled & distilled waters. This process helps eliminate the scarring, scaling & deposits buildups found with other products and allows for prolonged operation at lower temperatures.
ENGINE ICE uses an essentially non-toxic propyline glycol formula that helps to hard against the accident positing of humans, pets, plants and wildlife.
ENGINE ICE is phosphate free, silicate free, and biodegradable.
PRE-DILUTED NO NEED TO ADD WATER

Boil Over Prtection to 256F | Freeze up protection to -26F

Part No. TYDS008

Cyclelogic Products Inc., 125 E. Merritt Island Dr., Suite 107-401, Merritt Island, FL 32952

Toll-Free: 1-877-806-9377 | Intl: +1-312-2134-4026 | www.engineice.com

(Side)

Installation Directions:
CAUTION: DO NOT remove radiator cap while engine is HOT!

1. Remove drain plug/bot & drain all coolant/antifreeze.
2. Dispose of old coolant/antifreeze properly, as directed by local/state/federal laws.
3. COMPLETELY rinse & flush cooling system.
4. Pour ENGINE ICE into radiator, as is. No need to add water. The addition of water will reduce the cooling and antifreeze properties of ENGINE ICE.

ENGINE ICE contains propylene glycol and is not "toxic" as defined be the regulations of the Consumer Product Safety Commission at 16 CFR 1550.3 (c) (2), it is not for human consumption.
KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN.
Please DO NOT store in opened or unlabeled containers.

 

[Dygear]

Ok, after taking apart the side of the bike it became apparently that there was a significant amount of leaking coming from the cooling system. So much so that I am concerned that it might of lunched the head on the bike. I've bought it too a KTM dealer for a warranty replacement of the affected parts. I'll get back to you all once I figure out what's exactly going on with my bike.

 

[Pinrut]

A part of the radiator hose was replaced with aluminum pipes for cooling performance improvement
Effect became 1 bar less
View attachment 2793View attachment 2794View attachment 2795

So about the insulated cooling hoses, here's a perfect example of why they would help in some places. Aside from some of the technically true, but misleading information from the hose manufacturer, show scarecrow has replaced some of his lines with aluminum lines. If you look at the third picture, one of these lines runs right next to an exhaust header. Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat. Which is why it is used in heat sinks. This aluminum hose right next to a header (which gets to several hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit) will conduct heat from the header into the coolant, which is significantly lower in temperature, definitely not a good thing.

Assuming that this is a coolant return line from the radiator, this is a prime example of what not to do. Here the extra insulation from the "better insulated" hoses would help improve the overall cooling efficiency of the system.

Now the line running to the radiator, were it aluminum, would help the overall system efficiency assuming nothing around it is higher temperature than the coolant in the hose, which I believe should be the case.

So barring any hotter-than-coolant-temperature objects near the lines that feed hot coolant to the radiator, the hoses that do not insulate as well would be better, while the return line from the radiator to engine that runs next to the exhaust header would benefit from a hose that had better insulation.

 

[Dygear]

Ok. Warranty repaired the cracked radiator. They changed the engine oil as well, and that added a day because they didn't have the spec that KTM calls for the RC390 to use in stock. The replaced the fan as well with the radiator as a whole unit and I have a "Mk II" fan on it. It's quieter and blows out more air into my legs. The bike seems to run slightly hotter however, on a 80F night I'm running around 2 - 3 bars from over heating. It never actually overheats tho.

 

[btalont]

After following all the issues on the forum, I did 3 things to mine. One was going to ICE coolant. Drained and flushed the system and then flushed the system once with ICE to be sure I had full strength. Second I added the higher pressure radiator cap. Thisrd, I pulled the fan and trimmed the shrouding away. Result is one to 2 bars cooler running and the fan doesn't cycle as much now. I live in Houston, hot and humid and did a bike school track day the 30th of July and the bike ran cooler all day.