My bike needs the fueling mapped. Power commander or Powertronic(or something?)?

[Manbeard]

Hey guys,

So my RC had it's first service done. I had already fitted an Arrow exhaust and asked my dealer to fit the K&N filter and add a better mapping. When buying the bike they told me they even had a rolling road(dyno) so could provide tuning of the bike as well. When I asked him if he already had access to things like ignition timing etc(I only use 98 octane fuel) he looked at me funny and said, yeah I guess...

I picked up the bike today and the guy behind the counter said he thought they mapped the bike, or at least assumed they did when I asked him.
"I can't know for sure but they normally do"- is what he said. "The mechanics have already gone home so I don't know."
My RC feels all wrong and slower then before, especially up top between 8 and 10k rpm. It just struggles to get through those couple thousand revs, and the engine feels really viby and unhappy...
I'll take my bike elsewhere next time...

Anyone have any idea's on what to have it tuned with? I think if it were mapped with the ktm "race" mapping for the cat-less akra exhaust it should feel relatively good with the arrow as well!
I would rather have the ecu remapped than using a "piggy back" solution.

 

[cjwell]

The bike doesn't need 98 octane... And will make less power than on 92/3. Yes it needs the akra 9031 map installed then a Pcv over top to clean up fueling and to add ignition timing. Akra map is so so at best, O2 is still active, fueling isn't flat, etc.... Pcv will be available late July. I'm sure it runs poorly currently. No ecu flashing available at monent will be a year or better to read/write that ecu. Akra map and Pcv is/will be best option currently. See my thread on PCV testing. My guess is they did nothing to the bike mapping wise, all they could do is install akra map, but probably didn't know how to find it.

 

[mr-fabricator]

May i suggest idle reset, start From cold and let it idle ( no throttle) untill fan kicks in ( 10-15 mins ) turn off and wait a min or 2 then ride to see how it feels .

 

[mr-fabricator]

Chad , while your here why would a 98 octane fuel hinder performance , i understand running it wont increase performance but i thought 98 is just used to resist detonation , if not tuned for 98 then the bike would run as normal just not actually needing the 98.. ??

 

[cjwell]

Lee an "idle" reset only does short term fuel trim, idle relearn... Won't do much for rest of throttle applications. Worth a try but will only effect idle and maybe some part throttle cruise....Regarding fuel it probably won't make significantly less, but will make less, especially not being tuned. Yes typically high octane unoxygenated fuel is slower burning (resisting detonation). Peak cylinder pressure is reduced (too late = less power). My kit I'm putting together is 14:1 and will run on pump fuel. It has proper squish to defend detonation, cylinder head shape is better than 1960/70s design, etc... The key to making power is using the lowest octane fuel you can safely use. Why do you think vp mr12 fuel makes the most power? Well it is heavily oxygenated but the motor octane is 87 . Don't want to start a fuel debate on here....

 

[mr-fabricator]

Ha ha , i get ya , fuel is realy interesting me of late ( yes i need to get a life !!!! )

Any knowlage is greatfully received . I need to get over my old turbo days to where octane was king thanks for the input .

 

[micahpearlman]

MR12 is awesome -- especially the boost it gives small displacement bikes. But the smell is headache inducing horrible and having to flush the system after every race is annoying. I run 100 octane race gas so I don't have to flush the CA pump ethanol blend.


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[Ryanthegreat1]

Ha ha , i get ya , fuel is realy interesting me of late ( yes i need to get a life !!!! )

Any knowlage is greatfully received . I need to get over my old turbo days to where octane was king thanks for the input .

Turbo applications are still all about octane. You are limited in power by knock limits in probably all turbo applications. Lots of heat involved that contributes to pinging.

E85 is very popular among the turbo crowd these days for its 105-110 octane rating. And it also has a slight cooling effect on the incoming charge air. The down side is you need HUGE injectors to make it work.

 

[Ryanthegreat1]

Also octane ratings in other countries is measured in a different way than in the US.

91 or 92 in US is about the same as 98 in other countries.

 

[Ausracer]

The difference is between MON (motor octane number) and RON (Research octane number) different counties use different indexes, The higher the octane the less prone to detonation in high compression engines (The Hi octane fuel doesn't make anymore horsepower, but it does allow you to run higher compression ratios without detonation). The RC 390 is not hi comp in road trim so the fuel recommended in the book will be fine. A number of other factors come into play including fuel density,burn rate, oxygen content, etc. So I'd think unless you are developing the engine and have the ability to map the ECU and ignition timing the recommended fuel in your country is probably the best.

 

[cjwell]

I guess first thing I should have asked is where manbeard is located to determine how his fuel is rated. I assumed he was here in the USA. If that is not the case my post was out of line. I apologize.

 

[mr-fabricator]

My book says 95 fuel , we ozzies get the european bike .

I read somewhere that shell ( iirc) and bp both sell 98 Bp is actually rated as 98 but the shell brand is around 95 , shell calling it 98 is mearly their brand name for this fuel and has nothing to do with octane rating . Damn corporate oil giants !!! ( does rolly eyes )

 

[parillaguy]

where is the cat converter? I plan to use 100 octane Avgas (leaded) in my RC390. Around where I live, the "premium" tanks at gas stations do not empty as quickly and what is in them is somewat questionable. The Avgas is always the same. I only worry about the lead killing the cat converter. parillaguy

 

[ryandalling]

I'll be installing a Rapid Bike EVO tuning chip with quickshifter and will show some dyno numbers after we clean it up a bit. These guys did an awesome job with the Panigale, so we will see how good their KTM version works.

 

[cjwell]

where is the cat converter? I plan to use 100 octane Avgas (leaded) in my RC390. Around where I live, the "premium" tanks at gas stations do not empty as quickly and what is in them is somewat questionable. The Avgas is always the same. I only worry about the lead killing the cat converter. parillaguy

Lead will kill the O2 sensor too....

 

[cjwell]

I'll be installing a Rapid Bike EVO tuning chip with quickshifter and will show some dyno numbers after we clean it up a bit. These guys did an awesome job with the Panigale, so we will see how good their KTM version works.

The PCV will be available in a month or so and is less money.... The almost most important part on the 390 is ignition timing added/needed with the PCV, the Rapid bike will not do that. Let us know how it works out. The pcv has an emulator and is quick shifter compatible too. I tune the pani's at an ecu level so I haven't used first hand but heard very hit and miss about the rapid bike on them. My 2 cents.

 

[Manbeard]

I live in Belgium. We have the choice between 98 en 95 octane fuel. I've always used 98 octane because I used to drive tuned cars, and using it gave the mappers a little more breathing room to avoid detonation...
Riding the bike today, I can't say it goes badly, as the part throttle behavior seemed "smoother", and the bike probably isn't much slower than it was. Is the last 2k rpm relatively lackluster for you guys as well, or do you have to watch out not to bounce off the rev limiter in 4th, 5th and 6th gear as well?
I might just pop the stock air filter back in for a while, until something better comes around. See if it goes better then. Think I'll wait for the power commander!

 

[micahpearlman]

I live in Belgium. We have the choice between 98 en 95 octane fuel. I've always used 98 octane because I used to drive tuned cars, and using it gave the mappers a little more breathing room to avoid detonation...
Riding the bike today, I can't say it goes badly, as the part throttle behavior seemed "smoother", and the bike probably isn't much slower than it was. Is the last 2k rpm relatively lackluster for you guys as well, or do you have to watch out not to bounce off the rev limiter in 4th, 5th and 6th gear as well?
I might just pop the stock air filter back in for a while, until something better comes around. See if it goes better then. Think I'll wait for the power commander!

On the track in hot conditions (~95F+ ambient) with the Akro + Standard Airbox with K&L + PowerTRONIC standard map the overrev was useless. Power dropped so much it might as well have had the limiter set there. In the morning sessions with ~75F ambient it would run to the limiter reasonably cleanly.

 

[Manbeard]

It has been reasonable to be honest. But I'm quite sure it can get better! Have been seeing a worrying amount of blueish smoke(oil) when starting cold since the first maintenance... And they told me they "topped off" the coolant. Being a closed system, I'm already worried that my headgasket is going faulty.

 

[gbabyracing]

MR12 is awesome -- especially the boost it gives small displacement bikes. But the smell is headache inducing horrible and having to flush the system after every race is annoying. I run 100 octane race gas so I don't have to flush the CA pump ethanol blend.


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MR12 - 7-8% pour in HP increase with proper mapping. It has 8% MTBE (oxygenation). With out a proper map you will run very lean. A very caustic fuel you fully flush your system at the end of the weekend or keep fuel pumps and injectors around. I use it for Daytona (must have) and Road America as well as other select high HP tracks.

$33 US gal. I love it.