KneeDrachen
New Member
So, what's the best oil to use?
I will ignore the red herring (question about oil) and give my two cents. I raced my RC390 on the Pirelli tires as they were recommended to be the best lightweight class race tire in 2015.They worked great and lasted a season. I was so pleased I put a second set on for the next race season. In 2016, the spec lightweight tire being sold here for our national series was the Dunlop Alpha and it was not well liked by any of the lightweight class racers. Michelin had no sport/race tire in the size range and Bridgestone had just brought out the R11. My teammate switched to the R11 and was pleased with it. For 2017 Dunlop brought out the lightweight Q3,all of the lightweight class racers I talked to said it was a big improvement over the Alpha but not as good as theR11 or Pirelli.. For 2018, Dunlop brought out the Q3+ lightweight class tire. I put a set on to try them as the Q3+ set was $200.00 cheaper than the Pirelli and found they worked almost as well as the Pirellis I was used to (like 99% as good). The other up side to the Q3+ is that they do not need as much tire warmer time as the other brands. Michelin now have a sport/race tire in the size for our lightweight bikes but in the expensive class along with the Pirellis. My teammate has stuck with the B'Stones and goes every bit as quik as I do. This year a new racer with a 2018 RC390 arrived and smoked all of us using the sport Continentals. SO my conclusion is for 2019 all of the major tire brands have a sport/race tire that works well and you could win on it. Note here: I did not get any tire sponsorship so I have no axe to grind. parillaguy
I donÂ’t assume that Dunlop makes the best tires on the planet. Obviously I said that I run pirelli tires because I prefer them over the old alpha 13 which were not a good tire. I had stated that the lightweight track record is held by a guy who runs the new DunlopÂ’s. I tried to explain that you took the statement made out of context. I doubt it was meant in any way other than sarcastically. IÂ’m not interested in your resume or area of expertise, I donÂ’t advertise mine here but I do try to offer help from having experience on the bike on the track. Experience from working on the bike mechanically, what works for me may not work for you etc. I own and race 2 that I have converted into race duty alone. One for dry and one is strictly for the rain.
I donÂ’t claim to know what will happen if Dunlop makes a slick. I hope itÂ’s better than the pirelli. Club level racing is not motogp, or wsbk itÂ’s just club racing where we donÂ’t need a multitude of tire levels. We need one decent one that works well enough for the skill level. The guy who runs the DunlopÂ’s is probably one of the best up and coming racers IÂ’ve seen in a decade and has talent, enough so that he was selected for the British talent cup. I donÂ’t have his skill, heÂ’s better than everyone and uses the DunlopÂ’s. He would beat me on pirellis, he would beat me on the crappy alpha 13 tires IÂ’m sure of it. I think we have beat this horse enough. ItÂ’s so dead and tired. LetÂ’s agree on that
No I didn't say that you had to be an expert to give an opinion. I was just asking follow up questions to get an idea of what happening that's all. How the tyre works depends also on what the tyre runs on and how it generates heat etc I've never been to WA for racing so I don't know the surface characteristics and temp ranges etc. Like for example some tracks get greasy in mid afternoon did to uv etc so I was just interested in how things work for you.. Your opinion is valuable and adds information to the whole discussion if you can get to the underlying characteristics. however it appears that this disagreement with the forum bully is clouding the issue. anyway...Barbagello has been closed to motorcycles following the death of my mate in 2016. I personally won't ride there again until significant change are made.
Collie is the only track currently licensed in WA for motorcycles and that is where I have been riding/racing since Chris passed away.
I'm not running at the front for a few different reasons, carrying 50kg more than the 16yr olds I'm racing against being one...I confident in my ability and can hold my own despite being fat and old.
I don't think you need to be winning races to give an opinion on products on the bike.
"One concept that you believe is that it doesn't matter what tyre a fantastic rider runs on he will still win. Do you really think that's true? What even up.against other riders of equal ability? So he's so good he's definitely going to win every race and win the British talent cup. Really?"
I am talking about club level racing, don't assume the level I am expressing is anywhere that of a world stage. I was saying the kid is fast, on any tire and would beat me hands down. I don't fail to understand how tires work, that's your assumption, I quite do have a good comprehension of the way it works. I didnt want to get into a pissing match about tires period. Who knows what dunlop is coming with for a slick, I dont know. What I am getting from this is very apparent, You don't like dunlop. Here is my assumption, you were fired from Dunlop as a tire tech and now you hate them.
Now isnt that just as absurd of making the assumption I have no clue how a tire gets heat or carcass design plays into the feedback and handling of a tire. This is worse than texting with your girlfriend, she doesnt get it when your being sarcastic with a text either.
You asked what tires people are running, all of them and for different reasons. Pick the one that suits you and work with it. I bet it wont be a dunlop slick...
well tell us how a tyre gets heat.
the sun or a small campfire if its raining..
dunlops are made of fairy dust and sharks teeth and that's why they don't need tire warmers, they are a bit of magic and have the bite into the tarmac like no other
. No doubt in slick form good for 5 seconds a lap
I am 100% correct again for the win!
That's exactly what I would expect from you. You say you want to help people and yet you won't explain even the fundamentals of tyre performance. So far you have twisted things that i have said and behaved like a troll. All due to your ego.
I'm sure a lot of people here have no idea how a tyre actually generates footprint temperature and then loses it.. Why not help them?
I'm sure it will be fascinating.
Tires are round and don’t have feet. I’m not sure what you mean.
But I’ll give it a shot.
Track tires get very hot due to tread flex and friction generated by rotational speed and by cornering and braking. The higher the load and the higher the speed, the hotter the tire will get. But that heat will not be distributed evenly. One tire may run hotter than the others, or one area of the contact patch may be hotter than another. If you can accurately measure tire temperatures and observe how those readings are distributed across the tire, you can adjust tire pressures and suspension to achieve improved performance. Different track layouts, more right than left, type of track surface etc dictate the use of an asymetrical tire in motogp. As a club racer we make a judgment on what we think will work for our riding style. Softer compound for better grip in colder temps, harder compound for hotter temps. There’s more to the tire choice than just ambient temps, some guys are easier on the front and a smoother rider allowing them to use a softer tire which in essence should provide more grip but may not hold up for the length of the race. Perfect example of that is simple. Zarco vs Marquez two very different styles and two different tire choices. Either can win and both have. But back to a club racer perspective, for me I choose a soft front and a hard rear, for quite a few reasons. I usually can get a whole season from one set of tires, being in a climate zone where temps can vary during the race season from 5 degrees c to over 30 the soft front works well and has a better working range than the hot, it gives good feedback and let’s me know when we are at the point of no return with a wiggle, whereas from past experience on the Dunlop there was zero warning with them. Plus with our particular track on a lightweight bike there are few hard braking zones and I find that the soft holds the heat well on all corners. We have 7 rh and 4 left hand corners. I found with the Dunlop on one particular left the front would always go, I’m going to assume it’s due to loss of heat since it’s the first left for at least a good 45 seconds. The pirelli has warned me on several occasions on that exact corner for the very same reason, it’s likely cooled down a few degrees. But being it’s a softer tire it’s working range is much greater translating into better grip. As for the rear using a harder compound a few reasons. Tire longevity, plus I’m a bigger guy and with my extra weight I can generate more heat in the rear. I like the carcass feel and feedback. I haven’t had any warning from the rear yet, possibly I’m smooth with the throttle, and have the suspension settings working well. I almost forgot to mention tire pressures, always check with your tire guy at the track, he will give you your hot temp tire pressure. It’s not rule of god to be exact on his psi, I generally am 28rear 30 front. That is the range the tires work best as far as carcass flex and grip. If you ever happen to look at a rear tire at full lean there is quite a large “flat” spot on the pavement aka contact patch. The bigger the patch the better the grip. Tire pressure plays a big factor along with the tire design in that contact patch That contact patch is where your heat is generated. I could go on but I think most of you have got what I’m saying.
im not a “tire engineer” I’m a guy who races bikes and am always looking to help others with questions. This is a forum where we try to do that. Taking others comments out of context and assuming they mean something they don’t is always a cause for misunderstandings. Mr Reacher, I don’t know you and who you are or what you’re about but you asked for advice on tires. We have it. You claim to be the expert so I don’t understand why you even asked? Belittling people with statements like you have won’t be gaining you friends here. Our vendors on the site are some of the nicest, smartest guys I’ve ever dealt with when it comes to these bikes. A few conversations with them and maybe you might have found that out. I don’t claim to know everything, but it seems to me you may think you do. This forum is about collective minds on a common goal, we take each other’s advice and use the knowledge from past experiences. We welcome open minds and opinions, I don’t like people who make assumptions about others before they have had a chance to look at what that person provides to the forum as a whole. You “appeared” here in what, sept this year asking for head gasket advice? Someone helped you didn’t they? So maybe let’s take a step back and take a deep breath and remember what this forum is about.
Forgot to mention that the SC tires are sc1 front and sc2 rear
Lucky (?) us that the post is still informative. Please do not let this topic die, this is the one of the most interesting and unknown issue in racing.
As a Pirelli user, i do not think that they applies the "open information policy"
Now.
I started racing the RC390 a year and a half ago. So far, i tried 3 tires:
Pirelli Rosso 2, Continental conti attack sm and pirelli supercorsa sc.
The Rosso was a good first tire with very little sensitivity(to rider feel) to rear pressure and with no grip issues.
In the front, a differance of 2 PSI can be felt and it tends to lose grip quit easy. I can have no good feedback from the front. Tire size 150/60 and 110/70.
Pressures i tried: rear 16-30. Front 25-30.
The conti has a triangle shape (sm tire) and it give a very fast transitioning and the bike falls very fast to its side.
Better grip overall. The rear feels more sensitive to pressure then the Rosso, the front is less sensitive to pressure.
With the Conti i can go to a very low lean. The front feels numb.almost no feel.
Tire size was 150/60 and 110/70
After changing the rear to 140/70, more lean and faster turning was the benefit.
Pressures i tried : rear 18-27 front 27-32
The Pirelli SC is a world of its own. Immediate faster laps and laps recored, time after time.
Very sensitive to front pressure, not sensitive as much in the rear.
More stable handling.
Tire size 140/70 and 110/70.
Pressures i tried :rear 22-28 . Front 28-32
| RIM RECOMMENDED (INCHES) | PRESSURE RANGE RECOMMENDED (COLD) BAR (PSI) | PRESSURE RANGE RACCOMENDED (HOT) BAR (PSI) | TYRE WARMERS USE °C (°F) |
---|---|---|---|---|
FRONT 110/70 ZR17 | RIM RECOMMENDED (INCHES)3.00 | PRESSURE RANGE RECOMMENDED (cold) bar (psi)2.0/2.2 (29/32) | PRESSURE RANGE RECCOMENDED (HOT) bar (psi)2.1/2.4 (30/35) | TYRE WARMERS USE °C (°F)50 MINS. @ 80 °C (176°F) |
FRONT 120/70 ZR17 | RIM RECOMMENDED (INCHES)3.50 | PRESSURE RANGE RECOMMENDED (cold) bar (psi)2.0/2.2 (29/32) | PRESSURE RANGE RECCOMENDED (HOT) bar (psi)2.1/2.4 (30/35) | TYRE WARMERS USE °C (°F)50 MINS. @ 80 °C (176°F) |
REAR 140/70 ZR17 | RIM RECOMMENDED (INCHES)3.75/4.00 | PRESSURE RANGE RECOMMENDED (cold) bar (psi)1.6/1.8 (23/26) | PRESSURE RANGE RECCOMENDED (HOT) bar (psi)1.7/1.9 (25/28) | TYRE WARMERS USE °C (°F)50 MINS. @ 80 °C (176°F) |
REAR 150/60 ZR17 | RIM RECOMMENDED (INCHES)4.00 - 4.25 | PRESSURE RANGE RECOMMENDED (cold) bar (psi)1.6/1.8 (23/26) | PRESSURE RANGE RECCOMENDED (HOT) bar (psi)1.7/1.9 (25/28) | TYRE WARMERS USE °C (°F)50 MINS. @ 80 °C (176°F) |