Steering dampener, do we really need one?

[Metals 907]

I'very never ridden a bike with a steering dampener on road or off. In my youth I've been subject to numerous tank slappers and one high speed get off due to said tank slapper. I found that things such as low tire pressure, bad fork setup, and most of all rider error, to be the factors involved. Once I learned to give the bike back its head and either roll on or off for the throttle and i am able to ride it out easily.
That being said do we really need one?

 

[Formula390]

So I'm obviously opinionated given I developed the damper kit for the RC390, but I did so for a reason.

I do believe that the lighter riders are looking like they might not. Under 145# the rider mass seems to be OK with when things go wrong for the chassis. Over that, as mass goes up of the rider, the chassis has a harder and harder time dealing with "when ********* went wrong!" I'm 220#, and I can say, without a doubt, that I NEED the damper. Period. It's also looking like riders in the 160#+ range, especially racers, are REALLY good candidates for a damper, if not need one. There's a REASON that pretty much ALL modern sportbikes come with a damper. I'm stupified as to why the RC390 didn't come with one to start, or at the very least have provisions incorporated into it's design to make adding one easy. Coming up with a damper solution, that WORKED, and didn't just look pretty to pass tech, took MONTHS of trial and error.

Some riders also like a loose / wiggly feel of the bike. If you look at a rider like Ari Henning, hands down one of, if not the, fastest RC390 rider in the country, he's got a setup he likes where that frontend is just dancing around. He obviously likes a loose setup. There's a video of him at Chuckwalla (using the Formula390 RAM Mount with a GoPro) where you can watch his frontend pretty much near constantly waggling all over the place:
[video=youtube;jZs-xcw_YEU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZs-xcw_YEU[/video]
Now, there's a few factors here. One, he's a **** damned mutant, setting lap record after lap record in LW Superbike near everywhere he goes... but two, he's also very light. While ridiculously strong, and mutant fast, he's also very light... so the waggles with him in the saddle at those speeds would (IMHO) be much worse if say, a grape ape of a rider tipping the scales at 180+ (such as myself at 220) would be having a MUCH worse problem with bike control without a damper.

As for your theory that you only need one if the rider is making errors, well... yes, sometimes rider error can induce a tank slapper/frontend oscillations... but sometimes road conditions / low traction / tire slide "just happen" through no fault of the rider, and the result is the same. If the GOAT Rossi feels having a damper on his GP bike is a good idea, as well as the entirety of the rest of the GP grid, one has to wonder... if the best riders in the world want them, maybe there's a reason for that besides just to recover from rider error.



Also, sometimes one DOESN'T have the room, either on the road, or on the track, to just "ride it out easily." If you have the bars ripped from your hands from a violent enough kick, you are also going to find it near impossible to quickly and easily just add a bit of throttle back to settle the front. In the end, the damper is comparable to insurance. You might not need it... you might not ever have any rider error that induces a tank slapper, but one buys insurance for the unexpected.

This is certainly a subject which is filled with lots of opinions, anecdotal evidence, and scant factual evidence in the way of real scientific studies (there are some, but they are pretty damned difficult to understand by the lay person)... so these are my thoughts on the subject. They would be the same thoughts I'd have if I had, or hadn't, designed a damper kit for the bike. I designed one because I felt there was a real need... at the VERY least because I felt that -=I=- needed one. If others feel they could benefit from one, I'd say that's a resounding yes, especially as rider weight goes up, and speeds quicken. There's a reason why most (all?) racing organizations require them (if available). They save bikes, and rider lives.

 

[rick]

On low horsepower bikes like this I would normally say no but, if you're frequently hitting a bump in the track or road where the front end gets light and you're not willing to slow down (and don't want to adjust your suspension/geometry) then by all means slap one on! Bigger bikes are a whole different thing.

I also may not be in the majority with these opinions.

 

[big_sur]

I might get one if I rode on the street for potholes and crap but I don't see any need to get one for a race bike since this bike doesn't have enough power to create "real" headshake. Headshake is created when the front end gets picked up under power just enough to skip the front tire along and these bikes just don't make that kind of power.

 

[green_bread]

I am a 160 lb racer and though I am not the fastest person on an RC 390, I have had a few situations where it would have been nice to have a damper. Mostly in fast change of directions where the front end wants to lift off of the ground. Our racing series hasnt been to the track where I think this is going to be the biggest issue, yet, but I was lifting the front end between turns 2 and 3 at Hallett in Oklahoma during our last race weekend there. Ill report back after our first round at Gateway next month. The 3/4 transition there is where I was lifting the front end on my 250, last year, so its going to be interesting to see how it goes on the RC.

 

[ratlab]

fast change of direction,bumps in the apex of a superfast corner,bumps into a hard braking corner-etc.-you will be more comfortable dealing with this stuff and able to push harder with a damper.there is a groove down the front straight at buttonwillow that catchs people out.working as a trackday coach there i have seen 3 or 4 crashes and a whole lot more of getting out of shape with non-dampered bikes.i put steering dampers on all my bikes,including my n-250.if it only saves your ass one time it's worth it.

 

[rick]

That's funny - I was actually thinking of Buttonwillow. Just more about the wheelie hill between turns 4 and 5.

I had the worst tank slapper I can remember before turn 2 ...but, that was during a hug pileup where one bike fell out of the sky above me and chopped off my right handlebar, my dashboard and most of my upper fairing and then another motorcycle on my left collided with me and snapped off my left handlebar. I almost rode it out but, with no brakes, throttle, clutch and nothing to hold onto but my triple clamp I was unable to recover when a third bike rammed me from behind.

 

[Metals 907]

Thank you guys the input. I don't doubt the benefits of a steering dampener. Growing up on dirt, riding outdated bikes, I've had times I should have worn my brown pants. The worst culprits were my 77' rm 80 and 80' kdx 80. Both these bikes had lots of flex in the forks. Add in a low front tire and a little bit of speed and headshake was imminent.
I suppose if one were to tune the suspension to the bleeding edge of stability I could certainly see the benefit.

 

[stevieboy]

I hate the bleeding edge of stability. Every time I get there stability wins and I end up bleeding. Had a Scotts on one R6 and a Hyperpro on another as well as a Hyperpro on an R1. Nice thing is if they are working you don't know it.

 

[Metals 907]

I ride my bike bone stock, I understand people's feelings about the stock suspension. The rear is horribly under dampened. The fork a little spongy. (I am about 175 in full gear.) Other than the ride home my first ride that evening was up and down a mountain road with pavement only a step up from dirt road. ( also the first time riding a bike with abs) . I'm certain my body position is horrible. However for the first time in my life the surface was smooth enough and the bike feedbacwas so good I could feel it flex. I could actually feel my front and rear tires react. It was like seeing or hearing for the first time. The few times I've nearly tucked the front tire in due to bad form the bike warned me. When I've slid out the rear under power as well as on the binders and or compression braking to my surprise it would squirt and I'd ride it out like I would on a dirt bike.
I guess in my brief 3 seasons (street) I've been lucky. I think so little about the bike and what I'm doing/ reacting to constantly changing conditions around me that I'm oblivious.

On a side note, anyone else find riding this machine in the rain a blast?

I need to move out of Alaska to somewhere I can ride year round.

 

[ratlab]

That's funny - I was actually thinking of Buttonwillow. Just more about the wheelie hill between turns 4 and 5.

I had the worst tank slapper I can remember before turn 2 ...but, that was during a hug pileup where one bike fell out of the sky above me and chopped off my right handlebar, my dashboard and most of my upper fairing and then another motorcycle on my left collided with me and snapped off my left handlebar. I almost rode it out but, with no brakes, throttle, clutch and nothing to hold onto but my triple clamp I was unable to recover when a third bike rammed me from behind.

wheelie hill and the bump at the apex of riverside also.

 

[micahpearlman]

wheelie hill and the bump at the apex of riverside also.

My bike is dead steady through wheelie hill and riverside.


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[reenmachine]

Damn, you guys have me wanting to get out to Buttonwillow. I used to race cars there in '02-'04 (PRO-7 with SCCA) and I'd love to run it on the RC. I'm still friends with the folks who run Sevens Only there at the track.

EDIT: old pic! (from ACS Fontana, not Buttonwillow)

 

[Metals 907]

This will be my weekend at the races. (pit crew)

 

[ToraTora]

Get Damped

One of the Bay Area's well known rider of small bikes was killed when his Ninja 250 went into an unrecoverable head shake. Apparently the front wheel hit a road reflector that induced the head shake. He lost the front, went down, and flew into some trees and down a deep ravine. Had he had a damper on the bike maybe the head shake would have been contained, and he'd still be alive.

In motogp all of the small bikes 125, moto3 etc have dampers. In the feeder programs many of the 50cc bikes run with dampers. To say that because the bike is small it doesn't need a damper is clearly not what people that do this professional believe.

Head shake is brought on by a resonating energy introduced to the steering system. The damper mitigates the resonance allowing the bike to return to its non-resonating state quickly. Sport bikes have steeper head angles which are more likely to be effected by head shake. It's also why bikes like these have a very wide turning radius--to help mitigate head shakes.

The main reason the 390 didn't ship with a damper is probably due to costs. The mentality of the States is that a small bike has to have a small price. The idea of a $10,000 small bike makes people say "no way!" But to build a proper small bike with Ohlins, Brembo, carbon fiber, and all the things a performance bike should have costs money no matter what the displacement.

Other smaller street bikes like the Cagiva Mito came equipped with a non-adjustable damper.

 

[ratlab]

Damn, you guys have me wanting to get out to Buttonwillow. I used to race cars there in '02-'04 (PRO-7 with SCCA) and I'd love to run it on the RC. I'm still friends with the folks who run Sevens Only there at the track.

EDIT: old pic! (from ACS Fontana, not Buttonwillow)

going there on the 20th-running it backwards-should be fun.